Ready to buy 6mmBR...now what?

[750k2]

Sounds close to where I'm at.
I'll stick to my Savages for doggin simply because I can re-barrel my self.
I have a Holland .243 that is about toast and will have a new tube fitted
to it in 6BR just because it will last longer - A savage is 150+ in the bank
every bbl change.
Put the saved $$ in the glass you'll be glad you did.
If you must do the custom route used is the way to go - saves big $$$
That new stuff sure is purtty though.

 

[Frankr]

750k2 you can save some money going the used route,i have done it with fair success but you also could buy someone else's problem so the money saved is just wasted. My problem is i never find what i want used. i have had several new custom guns built from the ground up but my last build was from shooters corner. and i did save big money on the action and stock/used my new barrel and had bob do the smith-n and its a shooter(love it) But it has great history with it(old hart action) mcmillan BR stock piller bedded by a guy named mike toth.chambered by bob white.all good stuff and it shows in how the rifle shoots and i guess i saved in the 900.00 dollar range if it all had been new.So it can be done only draw back to this rifle is they used a remington bolt in the old hart action and it has been reworked a time or two and some times i have fireing pin troubles. love the action its very cool and the fact that it was built by bob hart himself(means something to me).maybe when i shoot this barrel out i will buy a tubbs bolt for it. But it shoots to good to touch it right now.

 

[North Fork]

You could have Stan Ware build your gun he lives in Minnesota and is a very good gun smith. Or you could buy a rifle from a place like cooper arms.

 

[RonAKA]

Savage Target Action, 6 oz. AccuTrigger - $578 (list)
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/actions/target/

PacNor Prefit barrel, Super Match SS - $280 + $125
http://www.pac-nor.com/prefit/

McMillan Stock - about $500
http://www.mcmfamily.com/mcmillan-stocks-benchrest-stock-list.php#light

Weaver 36x40 Target Scope - $439
http://www.theopticzone.com/default.aspx?act=pro&opt=detail&id=1448

Savage Barrel Wrench - $48
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=7388/Product/SAVAGE_BARREL_NUT_WRENCH
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=12578/GunTechdetail/Re_barreling_Your_Savage_Rifle

Headspace gauge - $25

Total assuming you put it together about $2000

And if you want to totally control the chamber size buy your own chamber reamer from Pacific Tool and Gauge for about $138.

http://www.pacifictoolandgauge.com/products/reamers/chamber.htm

 

[6BRinNZ]

Only thing I would add is - definitely get the bolt face bushed (as per recommendation on this site).

If you want to shoot the heavier bullets and reach out I think you will need the advantage that a small firing pin gives you to push the heavier bullets fast enough to make it worth while.

The smaller bullets 75 and below (possibly 80s as well) you can push along ok (with the larger firing pin) but you may find it hard to get near the fps listed on this site for varmint loads. e.g. for my Howa and a 75 v-max I am avrg 3160fps and at 3200+ fps I will pop a cci 400 primer....my Barnard (comes with a small firing pin) is over 3200 fps (haven't finished ladder test) and it hardly knows the round has been fired.

 

[thefish]

This is a very kick ass forum. I have learned a lot just from doing follow up research on all the responses generated from my initial question. But I'm a bit confused, was wondering what you all think:

1) 6BRinNZ said that there is an advantage to a small firing pin in that it pushes heavier bullets faster. I don't get it. Either the primer ignites or it doesn't, there is no gradation of ignition, right? What am I missing here?

2) Let's say I went with a custom barrel, say PacNor just for the sake of discussion. Am I correct in gathering that bullets in the 75-ish grain size are good to about 600 yds, and bullets in the 105gr range are for longer distances, say up to 1000? Is that right?

3) As a corollary, it is possible to get a barrel put in that will have right twist for both of those bullet weights?

4) lastly, what power scope would you guys suggest? Not necessarily what brand (boy is THAT a hot topic!) but what power range, objective size, etc. would be right for this gun? Like I said, want to use for target, doggin', and from what I've been reading here, would like to maybe think about sitting thru a few matches just to see what it is like. I don't even know if they hold them around here (eastern Iowa). It looks like it could be a whole new world.

Hey, thanks to all for keeping this going, it continues to be a great help in taking these first few steps. I remember many months ago when I couldn't even "get" what the big deal about 6mmBR was. I figured to myself, "why don't they all just use .243 Win's. What's up w/them?" Then, I saw such unanimity in the answers. Then, I wondered why my fingers sizzled when I touched the barrel of my Savage in .243 after just 8 or 10 shots of 41gr of Varget and 70gr Noslers and the zero started to walk all over the target. I figured that can't be to healthy for it! Little by little it is coming together.

Thanks,
thefish

 

[thefish]

Hey, p.s., someone mentioned Gordy Gritters, a gunsmith, who is actually just several hours drive from here. Any of you heard of him or had work done by him? Nobody I know here does any benchrest shooting so no one to ask here directly.

 

[Kenny474]

Gordy Gritters is flat out one of the best smiths to ever turn on a lathe. He actually does classes as well where he will teach you how he builds a rifle as well. He has built several championship winning guns, and will produce work that is second to none.

I don't think you can do better than Gordy, and if he is close to you than that is where I would go without a second thought.

Check out his website: http://www.gordysgunsmithshop.com/

This is Gordy's resume from his site:
BRIEF RESUME OF GORDY'S GUNSMITHING BACKGROUND

Own and operate full-time gunsmithing shop for over 23 years. Highly experienced in bolt action accurizing, custom rifle building, and general gunsmithing

Background and trade school education in gunsmithing, mechanics and machine shop

Founder, co-owner, operator of Iowa 1000 Yard Benchrest Association, a club which holds registered IBS 1000 yard benchrest rifle matches (see our website: www.iowa1000ydbenchrest.com)

Rangemaster for registered BR-50 rimfire benchrest matches for three years and local 200 yard Varmint Rifle benchrest matches for five years

Rangemaster for Varmint Hunter Magazine's annual Jamboree rifle matches (a prestigious five day event attended by people from all over the world)

Member of Varmint Hunter Magazine's "Gunsmith Advisory Panel"

Speaker at the Varmint Hunter Jamboree's technical seminars for a number of years

Author of numerous technical articles published by Varmint Hunter Magazine over the years

Instructor of a custom riflesmithing class for three years at the summer NRA Gunsmithing School in Oklahoma

Organize and conduct a number of ongoing classes/schools in Precision Gunsmithing and in Long Range/1000 yard shooting (see website training page for details)

Conducted precision gunsmithing classes for a Defense contractor's gunsmithing department to help them be able to build more accurate sniper/tactical rifles

Helped Grizzly Industrial design a "Gunsmiths Lathe" specifically for building high-accuracy rifles

Made a professional gunsmithing DVD: Grizzly Industrial's "Chambering a Championship Match Barrel"
In the process of producing the "Extreme Accuracy Series" of precision gunsmithing DVD's for do-it-yourselfers and professional gunsmiths

Builder of a number of custom rifles featured in Varmint Hunter Magazine

Builder of rifles winning the 2004 Heavy Gun, 2005, 2006, and 2009 Overall 1000 Yard IBS National Championships, 2006 and 2007 IBS 1000 yard Shooter of the Year, and rifles winning 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, and 2009 Iowa 1000 Yard club championships.

Builder of rifles that have set several new IBS 1000 Yard Heavy Gun world record and numerous club records around the USA.

Builder of rifles winning multiple American F-Class and Canadian F-Class Provincial championships, and rifles that have set F-Class world records

Builder of many high accuracy rifles used by customers across North America to set records and win various rifle competitions including the Varmint Hunter Jamboree, 1000 yard matches, 600 yard matches, F-Class matches, BR-50, IR 50-50, 100 and 200 yard benchrest matches, sniper matches, NRA service rifle matches, as well as for varmint and big game hunting

 

[Kenny474]

As for firing pin diameter, with a smaller pin in a tighter hole you can run higher pressure before you blow primers, resulting in higher velocity.

As for bullet weight, if you are shooting varmints, the 75 grainers will probably be OK, but for max accuracy on target in 600yd competition you will want the 105+gr VLD's as they will cheat the wind better.

A 1-8 twist will shoot everything from the 65gr to 105gr bullets. Though you won't be able to push the light bullets as fast as a 1-12 or 1-14 due to more drag in the barrel. You may also risk over rotating them at high velocity, though I am unsure if the 6BR can push them fast enough for that to be a real concern.

As for scope, that depends a lot on what you plan to use it for and how long you plan to shoot. Something in the 6-24X range will do for most things, though a 36x or higher will be better as the distances start to stretch. Others with more long range experience than I will be able to address that far better than I, as I am more of a 300yd and under shooter. But 6-24X has been enough for my needs. If I was to start shooting 600yds, I would step up to something in the 36X range.

 

[RonAKA]

Kenny474 has given you good answers. The issue of bullet weight and twist is a story of there is "no free lunch". For sure if you want to shoot long distance you want the heavy low drag bullets which need lots of spin 1 in 8" or more. The high spin will certainly still shoot the lighter bullets, unless they explode due to high spin. As Kenny points out that is not likely with the velocities of the 6BR. However there are two remaining issues:

1. High spin causes wobble. Wobble in turn cause inaccuracy that is significant at shorter (100-200 yards) ranges. Dan Lilja wrote an article about the effect it has. At longer ranges the benefit of low drag longer bullets which wind drift less overcome this. See this link:

http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/bullets_ballastics/bullet_imbalance_twist.htm

2. Heavy bullets are longer and need a long throat. It is not uncommon to seat bullets so they just engage the lands. If you have a long enough throat to do this with a low drag 100+ grain bullet, and not stuff the bullet way into the case, then you need a long throat. This is no problem, except when you want to fit a 62 grain bullet. In the same chamber it cannot come close to the lands without falling out of the neck. You will have to seat it way back and have a big jump to the lands. Usually this is not good for accuracy.

So the reality is that most in 6BR choose between 1 in 8 or 1 in 12 twist, depending on whether they plan to shoot short range with lighter bullets, or long range with the heavier ones. The advantage of the 1 in 8 is that you can still shoot the light bullets, with a bit of an accuracy hit on light bullets. The other way around shooting heavy ones in a 1 in 12 just does not work. They tumble in flight and most don't like that. For some reason they want the bullet to hit the target with the pointy end first. So it depends on your priorities for distance.

The message in this is that if you go custom you need to match the throat length to the twist. Low twist shorter throat, and fast twist longer throat.

 

[Frankr]

ronaka, the 1-8 or 1-12 is mostly what i here on here and my 6br is a 1-14 twist. now with that said. i have owned 2 14 twist(one i shot the barrel out,sold to varmit hunter who knew the best it could shoot was 1/2") the one i have now is 14 twist 24" tube. two friends of mine have 14 twist. i undersatand i am limited(in most of my testing) to 55gr to 70gr bullets. i see no reason to shoot under 65 gr bullets at this time(in most of my testing)
i shoot the 65gr v-max at 3,500 fps groups in mid .2's. its a super accurate flat shooting varmit killing machine. and at the bench any of the good 65-69gr match bullets i can shoot with most ppc's i mean if you show up at the range with a ppc bench gun it better be a one that's humming or i will get you. now my friend just screwed a brux 6br 26" HV, 1-14twist onto a savage RBLP and he has been chrongraphing the 65 v-max at 3,800fps groups in mid .2's. i can only emagin how that performs in the varmit fields because i know how well they work at 3,500fps. so now with all that said you can see i realy like the 14 twist. most of my target shooting is 100-300yds(mostly 100yds) most of my varmit hunting is say 200-400yds with say some days we might get to 600yds at max.and belive me that 65 v max even at 600yds kills ground hogs. im at 99% at 300yds. 400yds 80%,500yds 70%,600yds 30% effective kills.thats what i would say. now with all this said and out there.
i to have been wondering mabe try a 1-12,1-10, 1-8. just know how well it works in 1-14
i dont want to give up the little groups at 100yds
i dont want to give up the speed and flat shooting
so im stuck i guess untill i plunk down my money to try a new barrel
But i have a another friend who is thinking 1-12 so maybe i will wait and see if he gets one
and see how it shoots.

Oh if you are wondering how my buddy is getting 300fps faster than me(me to)
no i have small BR chamber .269NK short throat 24" tube
he has a biger chamber,.272 no trun neck job 26" tube
But hey he shot my secret load of RL10. 5 shot group at 100yds was .247 not bad for 65vmax huh. i might have to break out the custom bullets to out shoot him now.

 

[RonAKA]

FJIM, nothing wrong with 1 in 14". It is just more toward the slow twist end, and should provide more velocity and precision at shorter ranges. I see Nosler did their load data with a Lilja 24", 1 in 14" twist barrel, and show loads up to 80 grains.

 

[Frankr]

ronaka i just turned the necks on 50 new cases the other night and got 30 of them fireformed. i been wanting to try and play with some heavy bullets. a few guys on here said they were shooting 75gr v-max in 14 twist and yea there is that 80gr nosler. i have not messed with anything like that for a few years. i been shooting the same load for 6 years. but some years ago berger had a 71gr BT. i dont think they listed it as a vld. i bought a box of them and tryed shooting them i knew it was a long shot and tryed a few heavy loads of varget and was keyholen them at 100yds. so that kind of turned me off of trying any thing heaver that 70gr ers. The main thing i belive is once the veloicty is gone, the flat shooting/hard hitting is gone/maybe accuracy is gone,maybe just shoot a .308. if you understand what im saying there.