RCBS SUMMIT PRESS
- Thread starter M-61
- Start date
ridgeway said:
Chuck, I can see no markings on the castings anywhere, and I looked at the carton/sleeve that the press came in and nowhere on it is the legend, "Made in China".
Forum Boss
Administrator
Does this same Lee die work fine in another press? If it is off dimensionally you may not be able to bump the shoulder with the press used normally.
Forum Boss said:
You make a good point. I think up to now I simply used sized .mil cartridges on a Dillon 1050, with Dillon dies and ran them thru a Dillon trimmer, and only dropped finished cartridges in a case gage, to assure that they would chamber. Then I would toss them in a huge box to be used as needed.
Then I bought this Lapua brass in effort to see what sort of accuracy the CZ is capable of.
I am pretty sure I only loaded with my RCBS X die this Lapua brass one time, and that on a Lee Turret press, where I had issues maintaining consistent shoulder setback, which prompted me to buy this Summit press in the first instance. I don't remember using this Lee FL die before.
I wonder now if my issue is that my rifle chamber is shorter than my standard dies. Heck, I busted a turret on that Lee Classic Cast turret press trying to get enough shoulder setback, using the X die. If that is the case, the Summit press is not the culprit at all. I think I may take the Lee die to have .005" milled off the bottom and see if I still have the same issues....
Oh hello Mary!
Bingo. We have at least a partial answer. I also have 7.62x54r brass, which has been fired in a long chamber, so the shoulders are visibly moved forward in comparison to an unfired case. I just set up the Summit press for x54r, and turned the die in 1/4 turn past touching the shell holder, and voila! Ran it in and out of the die 2 times, turning it 90 degrees between insertions, and the shoulder appears to be in exactly the right place.
Forum Boss. My 308 dies are too long for this chamber, and I'm blaming the press for a circumstance where the die is too long to properly size the cases.
I say a partial answer, as I place my left hand on the top casting of the Summit as I manipulate the handle with my right hand, and I can feel it shift under my hand. So I still think there is flex in it, and I still think I will send it back to RCBS to have them check it out. Even so, thanks for helping me diagnose my real issue so it can be addressed. --I received today Whidden dies for the 308, so I will try them and see if I get any different results.
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
I think that you mean that your dies are too long for your chamber, also, once you have the die making firm contact with the shell holder at the top of an actual sizing stroke, no farther insertion of the case in the die is possible. A quarter turn is about .018 and the gap that I have seen after first adjusting a die to touch the shell holder at the top of the ram's stroke (with no case in the shell holder), and then looking at the gap that was created when it was in the same position in the midst of FL sizing a case has been much less than .010, more like .006 with a Rockchucker. Have you done this experiment with the Summit? When I have done it, I measured the gap with a feeler gauge. Why don't you try this, and let us know the result.
M-61 said:
I am never surprised. Every sport/hobby has it's "RTC component" That's "Resistance to Change". Whatever one individual uses is the "best" and any changes or alternates are automatically criticized.
I prefer to just judge for myself. Some of the best tools I own have been highly criticized by this sports "Curmudgeons" 8)
BTW, "Arbor Press" adapters are also available for this press so you can use your Wilson Dies if you wish. ONE press that can use both die types.
Forum Boss
Administrator
amlevin said:
AmLevin is right -- RCBS is developing an Arbor press adapter -- but it is a "few months away from delivery" according to our source at RCBS. But that will give the Summit extra versatility when the adapters hit the market. BTW, the Arbor option was pursued, in part, because of suggestions our staff made to RCBS at SHOT Show.
A buddy made the mistake of purchasing one of these. I warned him just on the merit of being a new model. My Lee Challenger press produces way better ammo than this thing. He is returning to his Lee Classic Cast w/ Breech Bushings. Seriously.
I wish to convey to other contributors that this press is working very well for me now that I have figured out the issue. In fact, other than not having been properly torqued down from the factory, it never did have an issue, it works fine. I had determined to tinker with it until I had it figured out, and it has turned out that I needn't do that. I am very happy with this press.
Heck, the primer catcher alone is a plus, as it catches *every* primer. It must be emptied frequently, but it doesn't spill.
I wish to explicitly retract my statements concerning the degree of flex I experienced with the press, as it was caused not by the press, but by brass fired in a short chamber being too short to properly resize in a standard FL die. I do not wish for my errors which attributed my problems to this press to put someone off from buying a really nice tool.
Heck, the primer catcher alone is a plus, as it catches *every* primer. It must be emptied frequently, but it doesn't spill.
I wish to explicitly retract my statements concerning the degree of flex I experienced with the press, as it was caused not by the press, but by brass fired in a short chamber being too short to properly resize in a standard FL die. I do not wish for my errors which attributed my problems to this press to put someone off from buying a really nice tool.
Don't you just hate people commenting on things They don't have first-hand experience with?!!!
I have one. Won't bump shoulders consistently. Lubed it good in the zerk fitting. Tightened all of the loose screws and loaded 50 more 308 using a Forster die tonight. Bolts holding the top ram cap on loose again. Re sized all again. Loose again...... shoulders all over the place...... thing appears to flex badly when slightly over cam. Run out is a problem.... After fighting my way through a couple thousand rounds I'm done with it. I gave my Rock Chucker to a friend - it was good - should have kept it. This is my experience and its my opinion that it isn't ready for prime time.
Haven't looked at one but I would be surprised if it isn't cast in china at the very least.
All their scales now say "made in China" on the bottom of the box in real small print.
About the press, if that ram gets a little bit of slop in it, the die alignment is history.
There are enough things to watch during reloading without having to keep an eye on the adjustment of the press you are using.
I don't want one of them anywhere near me.
All their scales now say "made in China" on the bottom of the box in real small print.
About the press, if that ram gets a little bit of slop in it, the die alignment is history.
There are enough things to watch during reloading without having to keep an eye on the adjustment of the press you are using.
I don't want one of them anywhere near me.
poorboy said:
I bought a Summit (original post July 2013) and have used it for almost one year without any issues. Actually I am very pleased with it. Also adapted a ruined die to use it as an arbor press also. (RCBS now offers an adapter to do this). Since I am an owner/user of this press I surely would complain if there was I fault I experienced. Then again I have always found RCBS to be the best in customer support so I really was not worried and I have nothing to complain about with this press at all. It sits next to an A-4. The fact that it is the "Patriotic" red white and blue model does add a touch to an 'all green' that I like. More over than doing exactly what I want, RCBS contributed a percentage of the price to Veterans.
stubbicatt said:Heck, the primer catcher alone is a plus, as it catches *every* primer. It must be emptied frequently, but it doesn't spill.
I got tired of emptying my primer catcher every 20 cases or so. I just cut the bottom out of it, bought some vinyl tube, heated the end with a heat gun, then stuffed the catcher into the soft vinyl. Routed the vinyl tube under my bench (out of the way of my knees) into a large catch can. I may have to empty the can sometime around the year 2020.
If you mount the press farther back on the bench, just drill a hole in the bench, cut the back side off the primer catcher, then use it merely as a guide to force the spent primers into the hole. Put a waste basket, box, or large empty coffee container under the hole.
gunner69 said:
On the top cap, I put a strip of .001" shim material inside the cap, reinstalled it, then torqued the screws. Hasn't come loose again for well over 1k rounds.
As for not bumping shoulders evenly, I found that the rear guide screws need to be a lot tighter than they come from the factory. Put the die holder in the middle of it's travel, tighten the top screw until it bottoms out then take my hand off the operating handle. I loosen the screw ever so slightly until the handle JUST STARTS to fall on it's own then tighten the lock nut. I cycle the handle several times and make sure that I can still feel that the screw is very slightly contacting the bottom of the "keyway". I then repeat for the bottom screw.
The point is to make sure that the screws are only loose enough to allow free movement of the upper die holder but as close to zero clearance as you can get. I then greased the "keyway" with some premium grease I bought from a local bicycle shop. Less messy than most conventional greases.
With my press adjusted this way the only variation I get in case shoulder bump is due to varying brass work hardening. If I anneal 100 cases and size/shoulder bump them I have 100 cases with exactly the same amount of shoulder bump. Case neck runout also runs in the +/- .0005 range on neck turned cases.
I have one of the Summit presses for about 6 months now. I really like the press because it does have the linkage below the bench, and the primer catcher works 100% of the time. It also loads the straightest ammo I have ever produced. Shoulder bump and base-to-ogive measurements are +/-0.001" or better using Whidden dies. I really like the open frame design because it allows me to hold a charged case in the shell holder and place the bullet on the case at the same time. I had a hard time deciding between this press and a Redding UltraMag. I'm glad I went with the Summit. My last batch of 6.5 Creedmoor loads had an average run-out of 0.0012" with only two rounds having more than 0.002" run-out, and I don't turn necks.
I suppose that with the proper maintenance, this press would be ok.
It's probably evident that I have a ax to grind with old American companies who are now farming out products to China, and will not support them as long as there are other options. Almost everything I buy now is made by Redding, who sells nothing made outside the US.
Veterans have been mentioned, so I would like to point out that Redding makes it a priority to hire veterans whenever possible for any position they have open.
Back to the subject this thread is about, the press. It's the design I don't like and what I said earlier about alignment of the dies is a true statement. I wouldn't like it regardless who made it.
It's probably evident that I have a ax to grind with old American companies who are now farming out products to China, and will not support them as long as there are other options. Almost everything I buy now is made by Redding, who sells nothing made outside the US.
Veterans have been mentioned, so I would like to point out that Redding makes it a priority to hire veterans whenever possible for any position they have open.
Back to the subject this thread is about, the press. It's the design I don't like and what I said earlier about alignment of the dies is a true statement. I wouldn't like it regardless who made it.
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