RCBS Summit Press. Great Press ----- But-------

[amlevin]

Since my 40 Year old RC-II was, well, just getting old (and I was tired of it banging my shins), I decided to buy a RCBS Summit press. I like the concept and it sure seemed like a solid press.

Then it arrived. When I un-boxed it yes, it was solid. All 22 pounds of it. It was also well built with a great finish on it.

Then for the disappointment. It looked like whoever assembled it did it all by hand without a single tool. The bolts at the pivot points were inserted and the nuts screwed on just far enough to keep them from falling off in transit. Same for the bolts securing the central guide rod to the base and to the upper pivot casting. Looking in the manual for instructions on the loose guide screws on the back was a waste of time. Nothing there. The instructions they did include for adjusting the bolt holding the linkage to the upper pivot was totally bogus. Called for tightening the bolt until the operating handle would stop in any position you left it. Do this and either the bolt would snap or one of the ears on the rigid casting would snap. I ignored.

Then for the Pièce de résistance. The upper pivot was loose on the central support. Not just loose because the screws were loose but loose as in too much clearance (ID of pivot casting to OD of mating surface on Central support). I tightened the screws as tight as I could with a long allen wrench, adjusted the guide screws as I thought they should be, and proceeded to size 50 pieces of Lapua Brass (more on the results later). After sizing these cases the top pivot casting was loose again with the pivot point moving up and down noticeably as I lowered the handle so the die hit the shell holder and when I moved the handle side to side. I shouted my universal word of disappointment, my wife shouted "are you OK" and I retightened the bolts.

I decided that maybe I wasn't doing some secret adjustment so I tried to contact RCBS. Sent them an inquiry. 5 days later, after no response, I sent another, waited another few days and still no response.

I decided to tackle this myself. Removed the top pivot casting and measured the ID/OD of the two mating surfaces. Also used a feeler gauge to see what it would take to take the "slop" out of the assembly. Found I could cram a .004" gauge into the gap so I cut a piece of shim stock .002" thick that I could fit in the circumference of the gap. The .002" shim just wouldn't quite fit so I cut a similar shim of .001" thick stock. Fit snug. I left just enough gap at the ends of the shim so the bolts would fit through.

Reassembled the linkage and checked for any slop, with and without upper mounting bolts loose. No more annoying slop and now the bolts won't be subjected to the stress that apparently were loosening them while sizing.

Sized cases BEFORE the shim was added and bolts were loosening averaged .0015 to .003" TIR. AFTER I finished my shimming and tightening the next Lapua cases (from the same lot) measured .0005" or less, with some not even moving the needle on the gauge.

I really like the press. It definitely needs the long handle to F/L size cases but the short handle is all that's needed for seating or neck sizing only. I bough both as I could forsee this issue. Another nice feature is that the press doesn't want to tip forward as pressure is applied, the primer catcher is a lot better than on the RC's, and lastly-------- No more dings in the knees as I slide under the bench with my chair (or hitting my head on the linkage when sitting back up after picking a piece of dropped brass up from where it landed. ;D

I wonder why RCBS didn't bother to FINISH the press in the factory. Can't blame this on sloppy Chinese workmanship, this press is built in the good ole USA.

 

[BigDMT]

Sorry to hear that. Unfortunately American made doesn't necessarily mean quality anymore. I'd send it back and spend a little more to get the Forster Coax. 10 times better than any RCBS. You won't regret it.

 

[amlevin]

Sorry to hear that. Unfortunately American made doesn't necessarily mean quality anymore. I'd send it back and spend a little more to get the Forster Coax. 10 times better than any RCBS. You won't regret it.

There's only one problem with the Coax. I don't like it. I know, it's just me but no matter, I didn't want another press that hung over the front of my bench.

As for 10 times better?? Now that I've fixed the issue I seriously doubt that. Perhaps better in the eyes of Coax owners but like me, not everyone likes them and uses other presses very satisfactorily. Even if using Wilson Dies, the Summit has adapters available. No need for a separate arbor press.

 

[M-61]

I have a Summit and had no issues with the assembly. Stuff does happen but what surprises me is no response from RCBS. Always have them to be #1 in customer service.
I don't like the Coax either and for the 10x better...? The Summit is mounted next to my A-4....sort of overkill but I like it. Made two adapters for the Summit to use as an arbor. One old die, one duplicate shell holder, two small pieces of steel. Perfect.
The Summit in the 'Patriotic' version ( red, white, and blue) the proceeds from the sales go to disabled American vets. Hard to beat that.

 

[BigDMT]

Sorry to hear that. Unfortunately American made doesn't necessarily mean quality anymore. I'd send it back and spend a little more to get the Forster Coax. 10 times better than any RCBS. You won't regret it.

There's only one problem with the Coax. I don't like it. I know, it's just me but no matter, I didn't want another press that hung over the front of my bench.

As for 10 times better?? Now that I've fixed the issue I seriously doubt that. Perhaps better in the eyes of Coax owners but like me, not everyone likes them and uses other presses very satisfactorily. Even if using Wilson Dies, the Summit has adapters available. No need for a separate arbor press.

I was not being "literal" by saying "10 times". Sorry you fellas didn't catch the sarcasm. Generally most folks who don't like the Forster don't know how to use it properly. I have RCBS RC, LEE turret, and Forster Coax presses all mounted to the same bench and I use all of them. Not to mention an Arbor press as well. There's a very significant difference in ingenuity and quality between the three threaded die presses. RCBS is prettygood, but it's far from the best and a long ways behind the Coax. There's a reason the RCBS costs less. Unfortunately you had to witness that reason first hand.

 

[jonbearman]

The heck with emails as with the production bind they are in like every other manufacturer ,I would call but be prepared to wait on hold for up to a half hour as alot of people who never reloaded before call them constantly with questions that ties the lines up.They will get to you even being on hold for awhile.You will be given a caller number and the computer operator will update you where you are in the que.

 

[amlevin]

The heck with emails as with the production bind they are in like every other manufacturer ,I would call but be prepared to wait on hold for up to a half hour as alot of people who never reloaded before call them constantly with questions that ties the lines up.They will get to you even being on hold for awhile.You will be given a caller number and the computer operator will update you where you are in the que.

Been there, done that.

I just decided that I could fix the problem myself in less time (and no elevated blood pressure) than it would take waiting on the phone. Just thought I'd share my solution in case someone else that decided they too wanted a Summit Press, and found the same issue, could remedy it themselves.

I'm even considering the removal of the shim and just "bedding" the upper pivot to the center support using some Kiwi Shoe Polish on the shaft and Devcon on the inside of the casting. Can't imagine why I'd ever need to remove the casting but if necessary I could still part it from the shaft. As for "free-play", none, nada, zilch, keiner, .

Big DMT--- I can't see how "not knowing how to use the Forster" has anything to do with the fact I don't want ANY press that hangs over the front of my bench.


As for YOUR RCBS, is it a Summit? Or just the one of the usual Rock Chucker models.

 

[BigDMT]

I see. Yeah the Forster definitely hangs over the bench a ways, and the primer catcher hangs even lower yet. Knowing this, I built my bench top at 48" high. Then I recessed the shelf underneath so I can still sit at the bench using a bar style swivel chair. If I want to stand, everything is at a perfectly comfortable height.

My point is that if your bench is hindering your options with presses, maybe you should rebuild your bench to cater to the presses you intend to use instead of limiting your press selections due to your bench restrictions. Just a thought...

 

[M-61]

I see. Yeah the Forster definitely hangs over the bench a ways, and the primer catcher hangs even lower yet. Knowing this, I built my bench top at 48" high. Then I recessed the shelf underneath so I can still sit at the bench using a bar style swivel chair. If I want to stand, everything is at a perfectly comfortable height.

My point is that if your bench is hindering your options with presses, maybe you should rebuild your bench to cater to the presses you intend to use instead of limiting your press selections due to your bench restrictions. Just a thought...

48"...that's a high bench for sure, but if it works for you great. I've built 5 reloading benches over the past few decades....each one better than the last ( just from experience) but they are all at counter top height. (36")

 

[BigDMT]

I see. Yeah the Forster definitely hangs over the bench a ways, and the primer catcher hangs even lower yet. Knowing this, I built my bench top at 48" high. Then I recessed the shelf underneath so I can still sit at the bench using a bar style swivel chair. If I want to stand, everything is at a perfectly comfortable height.

My point is that if your bench is hindering your options with presses, maybe you should rebuild your bench to cater to the presses you intend to use instead of limiting your press selections due to your bench restrictions. Just a thought...

48"...that's a high bench for sure, but if it works for you great. I've built 5 reloading benches over the past few decades....each one better than the last ( just from experience) but they are all at counter top height. (36")

Just how I like it I suppose. Don't like to be bent over for any reason. hear ya on getting better each time you build one. I think back to my first bench and have to laugh a little

Whenever I talk to anyone who is wanting to set up a work area to start hand loading, I always tell them to build the bench strong enough to withstand a tornado. The beefier, the better. I say if you are not comfortable dancing with as many people that will fit on top of it, then it's not strong enough. And mount the presses with the largest bolts the mounting plate will allow.

 

[KenO]

Most do build their bench too low. I have built many over the years, and until the last couple, were too low also, in the 36" range.

I read (dont remember where now) that the ideal height should be at the elbow, I built the last two at that height and agree. For me that is 42".

There is a good aftermarket for risers, to put the press up to where it should be because of too low benches. IE the "strong mount" by Dillon, and there are several for the RCBS and others, like the "Inline Fabrication" ones. They are between 6 and 10 inches. But, why not just build the bench right in the first place for reloading, not making sandwiches.

Another benefit is being able to see what you are doing for older eyes.

If you havent tried the higher level, your next bench give it a shot. Its a lot easier to lower it if you dont like it, than it is to make it higher.

 

[BigDMT]

Excuse me. I thought maybe 48" sounded a little high as well so I measured it and it's right at 42.5". Not sure why I was thinking 48" :

That's at the exact height to where if I put my elbows at a 90 degree angle, my forearms rest right on top of the bench.

Really like it for doing stock work in my vice. Nice to put the stock in any position and be standing straight up while working on it. Perfect height for using my bench grinder and drill press as well.

 

[hoz53]

Thanks for the info fellas. I am getting ready to build a bench soon and was wondering about the height. I may also try an rcbs summit.

Napsac

 

[brian427cobra]

Take it back/send it back and get a refund, buy a Forster Co-Ax

 

[Jeff Von Rosenberg]

Come on Cobra !! A Prometheus and a Co-ax!! Get it together and get a new 21st century Arbor press with a hyd bullet seating pressure gauge !!( check the web site some awesome tools !!) Prep the bras, sort the bullets with a Bob Green comparator, trim the meplats with your Giraud and tip them with the Hoover and shoot lots of X's at 1000 yds !!! Or steel in your tactical stuff! JVON

 

[Barlow]

Redding T7, great press. Barlow

 

[stubbicatt]

Hm. I guess that's why there are different manufacturers and different tools, as everybody likes something that someone else doesn't. Variety is a wonderful thing.

I had a Forster Co Ax back in the early 90's. I was unimpressed, sold it to a friend. His inability to obtain concentric ammunition with that press was the cause of the end of a friendship. Haven't spoken to him since. I would feel bad, but I told him I couldn't get it to make concentric ammo... but he thought he could do better I guess.

That Co Ax might make a good boat anchor. Perhaps there are some that work better, I don't know, and I won't ever know, as I won't be trying another. That was an expensive disappointment in more than one way.

I have a RCBS Summit press. I had some initial teething issues with it, including the non tightened bolts and screws like OP said. Since I tightened the fasteners on the castings down to the main shaft, and adjusted the tightness of the fasteners on the pivots, the Summit press has proven to be a great tool. It just required a bit more fettling than something this expensive should require.

 

[amlevin]

I have a RCBS Summit press. I had some initial teething issues with it, including the non tightened bolts and screws like OP said. Since I tightened the fasteners on the castings down to the main shaft, and adjusted the tightness of the fasteners on the pivots, the Summit press has proven to be a great tool. It just required a bit more fettling than something this expensive should require.

Thank you for sticking to the intent of my initial post. I wasn't interested in what I should have purchased or sending the press back for a refund. I just finished a batch of ammo yesterday that was super straight and the press worked just fine. Does exactly what I wanted it to do.

As for expensive? Considering that a Co-Ax is around $125 more, and still requires it's own "fussing" to get going, what's expensive.

For those that have recently purchased one and experienced the same issues, hopefully they will read this and see that the solutions are nice and easy. Certainly less hassle than waiting for a response from RCBS, ir sending it back and being with out a press until the get a refund or replacement.

Still wonder whether any of those who've commented here or in other threads how terrible the Summit press is, have ever put their hands on one.


BTW, for anyone who buys one, definitely get the short handle as well. Makes it really nice to "feel" seating pressure. Takes about 20 seconds to change from long to short after sizing operations.

 

[gotcha]

Well, Thanks for the input Amlevin! I've been considering a Summit myself. I think you just convinced me I need to keep looking. I would have returned the Summit covered with Vaseline so they'd know were to stick it 8)

 

[Jeff Von Rosenberg]

Such intelligent people on here! Makes me wish I had gone to college!!!