RCBS Chargemaster
- Thread starter Vulcan
- Start date
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Administrator
George,
There have been a number of threads on this. Suggest you use the search feature.
This website has also done a very extensive test on all the Digital Dispensers. See:
http://www.6mmbr.com/powderdispensers01.html
http://www.6mmbr.com/powderdispensers02.html
Check the Blog also for comments about changes that were made to the unit in late 2005. Basically the door now hinges both left and right, the dispensing tube is slightly larger in diameter, dispensing speed has been reduced a tad, and there is now an "auto-dispense" feature.
The three tests we've done, throwing 20 loads per test, showed the machine dispensed withing its claimed plus/minus 0.1 grain 18 or 19 times out of 20.
There have been a number of threads on this. Suggest you use the search feature.
This website has also done a very extensive test on all the Digital Dispensers. See:
http://www.6mmbr.com/powderdispensers01.html
http://www.6mmbr.com/powderdispensers02.html
Check the Blog also for comments about changes that were made to the unit in late 2005. Basically the door now hinges both left and right, the dispensing tube is slightly larger in diameter, dispensing speed has been reduced a tad, and there is now an "auto-dispense" feature.
The three tests we've done, throwing 20 loads per test, showed the machine dispensed withing its claimed plus/minus 0.1 grain 18 or 19 times out of 20.
Thanks for the information. I have the Dillion D-Terminator scale which has started to get off .3 to .4 grains about every 5 loads. I was either going to buy another scale or the RCBS dispenser.
Has anyone ever used the AccuLab scale that is sold at Sinclair's?
It is more expensive but says it has an accuracy to .01 grains.
Has anyone ever used the AccuLab scale that is sold at Sinclair's?
It is more expensive but says it has an accuracy to .01 grains.
Forum Boss
Administrator
The Acculab has the same internals as the MXX-123 sold by Denver Instruments.
Here is a complete test of the MXX-123:
http://www.6mmbr.com/mxx123test.html
This test, along with other important technical articles, are listed on our Tech Articles page:
http://www.6mmbr.com/TechArticles.html
Let your friends know about our website. We have delivered the first, and most comprehensive tests of both the RCBS Chargemaster and the MXX-123 among all media sources, print or internet. And the site is free, and ALL articles are written by real shooters who own/use the products tested.
Here is a complete test of the MXX-123:
http://www.6mmbr.com/mxx123test.html
This test, along with other important technical articles, are listed on our Tech Articles page:
http://www.6mmbr.com/TechArticles.html
Let your friends know about our website. We have delivered the first, and most comprehensive tests of both the RCBS Chargemaster and the MXX-123 among all media sources, print or internet. And the site is free, and ALL articles are written by real shooters who own/use the products tested.
George,
I have a Dillon scale. It has been replaced by Dillon twice. I still will not use it. It does not give accurate readings checked against my bean scales and other electronic scales.
Six months ago I bought a DI MXX-123, I think it is the same scale that Sinclair sales under a different name. Excellent scale, you will really like it.
Look at the Denver Instruments site. The MXX-123 has many threads on our site. Do a search.
Chuck
I have a Dillon scale. It has been replaced by Dillon twice. I still will not use it. It does not give accurate readings checked against my bean scales and other electronic scales.
Six months ago I bought a DI MXX-123, I think it is the same scale that Sinclair sales under a different name. Excellent scale, you will really like it.
Look at the Denver Instruments site. The MXX-123 has many threads on our site. Do a search.
Chuck
George,
You can got to www.reloaders-nest.com and read the test I performed for the Denver Instruments MXX-123 scale in comparison with my DI TR603D for this site and also review my test results of the RCBS powder dispenser as well I performed both tests for the site here.
I also offer the DI MXX-123 scales at a greater discount than anyone else They are 255.00 shipped and I am an authorized DI Dealer.
You can got to www.reloaders-nest.com and read the test I performed for the Denver Instruments MXX-123 scale in comparison with my DI TR603D for this site and also review my test results of the RCBS powder dispenser as well I performed both tests for the site here.
I also offer the DI MXX-123 scales at a greater discount than anyone else They are 255.00 shipped and I am an authorized DI Dealer.
RCBS Chargemaster
I saw several of the RCBS being used at Visalia last weekend. Too soon to evaluate. Next month at Raton we will see. the big drawback is the need for an electrical hookup. At most ranges that could be a problem. Don't leave your powder thrower at home you might need it. Besides that the RCBS unit does the job. I was intrigued how it would trickle the last few kernels to get the exact powder load. I understand each load is programed to throw in 3 stages thus the accuracy. I like the unit and might someday have one.
Stephen Perry
I saw several of the RCBS being used at Visalia last weekend. Too soon to evaluate. Next month at Raton we will see. the big drawback is the need for an electrical hookup. At most ranges that could be a problem. Don't leave your powder thrower at home you might need it. Besides that the RCBS unit does the job. I was intrigued how it would trickle the last few kernels to get the exact powder load. I understand each load is programed to throw in 3 stages thus the accuracy. I like the unit and might someday have one.
Stephen Perry
This is still an RCBS Chargemaster Thread. Any comments on such.
Stephen Perry
Stephen Perry
Stephen,
I too have seen a couple of chargemasters at matches and wondered if it would be the way to go. Both were used in loading trailers with generators but one could just use a power inverter and extension cord hooked to a car battery if the loading area is close enough to parking. However, after seeing that in tests the unit was not accurate 5%-10% of the time, I,m not sure it offers anything better than the current method of throwing charges with a good measure and a consistant stroke. I've tested myself to see what the most consistant method for me is and frequently re-check myself to see if I remain consistant. I find thatI can throw charges +/- .1 most of the time and maybe once in 25 throws I'll get one at .3:,. The other thing about the Chargemaster is time. At a big match where there are 3-6 relays, no problem, but at my local matches 2 relays is about it, and sometimes I get back to the line just in time for the next match.
I too have seen a couple of chargemasters at matches and wondered if it would be the way to go. Both were used in loading trailers with generators but one could just use a power inverter and extension cord hooked to a car battery if the loading area is close enough to parking. However, after seeing that in tests the unit was not accurate 5%-10% of the time, I,m not sure it offers anything better than the current method of throwing charges with a good measure and a consistant stroke. I've tested myself to see what the most consistant method for me is and frequently re-check myself to see if I remain consistant. I find thatI can throw charges +/- .1 most of the time and maybe once in 25 throws I'll get one at .3:,. The other thing about the Chargemaster is time. At a big match where there are 3-6 relays, no problem, but at my local matches 2 relays is about it, and sometimes I get back to the line just in time for the next match.
Tightneck
I have seen just the opposite as you did. The Chargemasters I watched produced exact loads. Not sure what to think about the RCBS unit. Too many good powder throwers out there. Exact powder charges didn't seem so important last year. Most throwers will throw within a tenth or 2, worked for all the group records before. But I do like watching the RCBS Casemaster go through its cycle to produce exact loads.
Stephen Perry
I have seen just the opposite as you did. The Chargemasters I watched produced exact loads. Not sure what to think about the RCBS unit. Too many good powder throwers out there. Exact powder charges didn't seem so important last year. Most throwers will throw within a tenth or 2, worked for all the group records before. But I do like watching the RCBS Casemaster go through its cycle to produce exact loads.
Stephen Perry
I trust my shooting buddies, several current world record holders, who have names and their opinions on the RCBS Casemaster and what I saw. Besides who says your scale is right a 1/10 grn is a mighty small weight to judge. What's your name. I don't like talking to handles. Mine is Stephen Perry all day.
Stephen Perry
Stephen Perry
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Security is very important in the internet environment. This Forum does not require Forum members to post their actual names. If a member chooses to use his/her real name, that is fine. If a member chooses to use a Forum nickname, that is also fine.
Other boards may have other policies. And there are good reasons for both systems. But we have operated on a "name optional" basis from the beginning and that's how it's going to stay.
Sorry I used my name. Can you suggest a dark and sleezy handle for me.
?
?
I shoot mostly 133, & when dropping from ANY powder measure you
can get as much as .5 difference in weight. I went to a Chargemaster & take it to the matches. Stu Harvey has done tests
with his, with a very good scale & found that with HIS Chargemaster, it is never off more than .2, not perfect, but
better than dropping. I shoot in a upper window, 30.1-30.5, I'm
starting to think that the Chargemaster is helping my aggs.
can get as much as .5 difference in weight. I went to a Chargemaster & take it to the matches. Stu Harvey has done tests
with his, with a very good scale & found that with HIS Chargemaster, it is never off more than .2, not perfect, but
better than dropping. I shoot in a upper window, 30.1-30.5, I'm
starting to think that the Chargemaster is helping my aggs.
Hey Steve, I can, but I better not, there might be women or kids
reading this.
Dick
reading this.
Dick
Dick
I didn't mention you and your Chargemaster at Visalia but you knew I was mentioning you and a few others that had them there. Dick could you help me pick a dark and sleezy handle for my penpal name here besides my own.
Stephen Perry
I didn't mention you and your Chargemaster at Visalia but you knew I was mentioning you and a few others that had them there. Dick could you help me pick a dark and sleezy handle for my penpal name here besides my own.
Stephen Perry
Forum Boss
Administrator
One thing to keep in mind is that RCBS claims plus/minus 0.1 grain for the Chargemaster. That doesn't mean all charges are within 0.1 grain Extreme Spread. If the target weight is 36.0 gr, you could get 35.9, 36.0, or 36.1.
In December 2005, James Phillips did a test, dropping multiple charges with the Chargemaster, then checking them on a Denver Instrument scale. In the tests shown below, only 6 charges out of 60,in three total tests) were outside the plus/minus 0.1 range for Varget and H4350. And in two of the tests, only one charge in 20 was "out of spec". Individual units may vary of course, and your set-up makes a difference. Avoid drafty areas, make sure the unit is level,both side to side and front to rear). It's also a good idea to calibrate the unit before use.
Here were the findings for 29.0gr Varget. Charge out of +/- 0.1 range is bold. Accuracy call based on rounding to nearest tenth. For example, 29.14 is considered OK, 29.16 is not OK.
Varget 29.0 -- RCBS Charge Master 1500 Denver Instruments TR-603D
Reading Actual
Charge #1 29.0 29.29
Charge #2 29.0 29.10
Charge #3 29.0 29.07
Charge #4 29.0 29.08
Charge #5 29.0 29.06
Charge #6 29.0 29.00
Charge #7 29.0 28.99
Charge #8 29.0 29.26
Charge #9 29.0 29.47
Charge #10 29.0 29.11
Charge #11 29.0 29.18
Charge #12 29.0 29.09
Charge #13 29.0 29.09
Charge #14 29.0 29.10
Charge #15 29.0 29.09
Charge #16 29.0 29.06
Charge #17 29.0 29.14
Charge #18 29.0 28.99
Charge #19 29.0 29.03
Charge #20 29.0 29.08
Varget 24.0 -- RCBS Charge Master 1500 Denver Instruments TR-603D
Reading Actual
Charge #1 24.0 24.08
Charge #2 24.0 24.06
Charge #3 24.0 24.04
Charge #4 24.0 24.07
Charge #5 24.0 24.10
Charge #6 24.0 24.06
Charge #7 24.0 24.04
Charge #8 24.0 24.13
Charge #9 24.0 23.99
Charge #10 24.0 23.99
Charge #11 24.0 24.03
Charge #12 24.0 24.00
Charge #13 24.0 24.06
Charge #14 24.0 24.06
Charge #15 24.0 23.99
Charge #16 24.0 24.02
Charge #17 24.0 24.19
Charge #18 24.0 24.06
Charge #19 24.0 24.02
Charge #20 24.0 24.15
Here are findings for H-4350. Rounded to nearest tenth for Accuracy Call.
H4350 36.0 -- RCBS Charge Master 1500 Denver Instruments TR-603D
Reading Actual
Charge #1 36.0 36.07
Charge #2 36.0 36.05
Charge #3 36.0 35.98
Charge #4 36.0 36.03
Charge #5 36.0 36.12
Charge #6 36.0 36.03
Charge #7 36.1 36.13
Charge #8 36.0 35.99
Charge #9 36.0 35.97
Charge #10 36.0 36.01
Charge #11 36.0 36.00
Charge #12 36.0 36.17
Charge #13 36.0 35.95
Charge #14 36.0 36.12
Charge #15 36.0 36.00
Charge #16 36.0 35.98
Charge #17 36.0 35.92
Charge #18 36.0 36.13
Charge #19 36.0 36.10
Charge #20 36.0 35.99
NOTE: There is some evidence the machine got more accurate with successive tests. This suggests that warm-up helped or perhaps the dispensing tube self-lubricated in some fashion, causing fewer clumps at the very end of the each dispensing cycle. It's a clump of kernels dropping right at the end of the cycle that tends to make the machine run high, when it does.
UPDATE: We hope to repeat the test with the upgraded 2006 Unit.
In December 2005, James Phillips did a test, dropping multiple charges with the Chargemaster, then checking them on a Denver Instrument scale. In the tests shown below, only 6 charges out of 60,in three total tests) were outside the plus/minus 0.1 range for Varget and H4350. And in two of the tests, only one charge in 20 was "out of spec". Individual units may vary of course, and your set-up makes a difference. Avoid drafty areas, make sure the unit is level,both side to side and front to rear). It's also a good idea to calibrate the unit before use.
Here were the findings for 29.0gr Varget. Charge out of +/- 0.1 range is bold. Accuracy call based on rounding to nearest tenth. For example, 29.14 is considered OK, 29.16 is not OK.
Varget 29.0 -- RCBS Charge Master 1500 Denver Instruments TR-603D
Reading Actual
Charge #1 29.0 29.29
Charge #2 29.0 29.10
Charge #3 29.0 29.07
Charge #4 29.0 29.08
Charge #5 29.0 29.06
Charge #6 29.0 29.00
Charge #7 29.0 28.99
Charge #8 29.0 29.26
Charge #9 29.0 29.47
Charge #10 29.0 29.11
Charge #11 29.0 29.18
Charge #12 29.0 29.09
Charge #13 29.0 29.09
Charge #14 29.0 29.10
Charge #15 29.0 29.09
Charge #16 29.0 29.06
Charge #17 29.0 29.14
Charge #18 29.0 28.99
Charge #19 29.0 29.03
Charge #20 29.0 29.08
Varget 24.0 -- RCBS Charge Master 1500 Denver Instruments TR-603D
Reading Actual
Charge #1 24.0 24.08
Charge #2 24.0 24.06
Charge #3 24.0 24.04
Charge #4 24.0 24.07
Charge #5 24.0 24.10
Charge #6 24.0 24.06
Charge #7 24.0 24.04
Charge #8 24.0 24.13
Charge #9 24.0 23.99
Charge #10 24.0 23.99
Charge #11 24.0 24.03
Charge #12 24.0 24.00
Charge #13 24.0 24.06
Charge #14 24.0 24.06
Charge #15 24.0 23.99
Charge #16 24.0 24.02
Charge #17 24.0 24.19
Charge #18 24.0 24.06
Charge #19 24.0 24.02
Charge #20 24.0 24.15
Here are findings for H-4350. Rounded to nearest tenth for Accuracy Call.
H4350 36.0 -- RCBS Charge Master 1500 Denver Instruments TR-603D
Reading Actual
Charge #1 36.0 36.07
Charge #2 36.0 36.05
Charge #3 36.0 35.98
Charge #4 36.0 36.03
Charge #5 36.0 36.12
Charge #6 36.0 36.03
Charge #7 36.1 36.13
Charge #8 36.0 35.99
Charge #9 36.0 35.97
Charge #10 36.0 36.01
Charge #11 36.0 36.00
Charge #12 36.0 36.17
Charge #13 36.0 35.95
Charge #14 36.0 36.12
Charge #15 36.0 36.00
Charge #16 36.0 35.98
Charge #17 36.0 35.92
Charge #18 36.0 36.13
Charge #19 36.0 36.10
Charge #20 36.0 35.99
NOTE: There is some evidence the machine got more accurate with successive tests. This suggests that warm-up helped or perhaps the dispensing tube self-lubricated in some fashion, causing fewer clumps at the very end of the each dispensing cycle. It's a clump of kernels dropping right at the end of the cycle that tends to make the machine run high, when it does.
UPDATE: We hope to repeat the test with the upgraded 2006 Unit.
I think that it may be a bit premature to say the Chargemaster is better than charges thrown with a good measure. As far as I know, there aren't a whole lot of world record aggs, grands, 2 guns, 3guns or 4 guns that have been recorded by a shooter using a Chargemaster. Maybe that will change but hasn't as of yet. Was Lester using one this past weekend? He had a pretty solid shoot it looked like. Probably not due to his method of throwing or weighing powder, but rather his ability to read the conditions and good bench technique. Dont get me wrong, I am interested in these machines and will probably get one for the reloading room to ease in throwing charges for the powders that dont meter so well. I'm just not convinced yet that they are a great improvement over throwing charges with a good measure using a powder like 133. As far as ANY measure can be off by as much as .5 gr, I'd say that most measures used by BR shooters will not show that kind of variation as long as the stroke of the handle remains consistant. JMO
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