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Range of bullet weights for 6 PPC

SteveOak

Gold $$ Contributor
What is the heaviest bullet that is practical to use with a 6 PPC for 300 yards?

Bonus points if you are presently shooting a heavy like a Berger 87gr VLD hunting bullet. :)
 
What is the heaviest bullet that is practical to use with a 6 PPC for 300 yards?

Bonus points if you are presently shooting a heavy like a Berger 87gr VLD hunting bullet. :)
Really will depend on barrel twist rate but with the 1 - 13.5 - 1 - 14 range some 80 gr. may stabilize. Probably not producing same accuracy as the lighter weights might.
 
Really will depend on barrel twist rate but with the 1 - 13.5 - 1 - 14 range some 80 gr. may stabilize. Probably not producing same accuracy as the lighter weights might.
Not IME. Any 80's I've seen are too long for a 14 but I have heard of one guy that said he had a 13.5 that shot his 80's good. Not sure what 80 it was/is though. 13 is still theoretically too slow for most 80's. The safe bet is a 1-12 for 80's. Safely stable with any I've seen and regardless what you read, a little faster than minimum required twist leaves NOTHING on the table at all. In fact, I think it may be beneficial, if anything but we're splitting a very fine hair.

Don't want to sound like I'm bragging but National Championships carry a lot of results based weight. I've won a 100-200 grand agg UBR National championship shooting 68's in a 12 twist 6 Grendel and I think twice at 200 with 80's. Again, Nationals! Trust me, it does work. A 6 Grendel and a 6 PPC are so close to one another...the biggest difference is the name. One has a bunch more Nationals than the other, fwiw. You asked specifically about a PPC, so just pointing out that I challenge anyone to truly shoot the difference. You can use the same "data" or PPC loads in the Grendel, but the Grendel does hold just a tad more powder if ya wanna step on it a little more.

Same for stepping up to a 10 twist in a 6 Grendel. Still working with it and it will flat shoot but we might be at or very close to the tipping point in terms of twist being too fast. Hard to say for sure. It is clear though, even the 68's and 80's have consistently been most accurate in it vs the more "twist appropriate" bullet weights. The shorter, lighter bullets just plain out shoot the heavies. I've said that for a long time but this bbl has been a dedicated test dummy to see it and try to find that "tipping point" in a full on BR rifle. Being only one bbl, I don't consider it to be enough to make firm conclusions either way as to if it can be seriously competitive against the more typical 13.5-14 twists, head to head...but it's damn close with the lighter bullets. It has shot very well with 87-95 grain bullets too but there is a clear edge to the 68 and 80's. Not huge, but clear. Long bullets can shoot, just not competitively..consistently, against the lighter bullets at short range and at a high level.

Back to the 12 twists....I'm staying with those over the slower until I see a reason to go back. I've tested that a ton and I'm convinced the 12 is what I'll stick with. Just spec the reamer right and you at least have the ability to test for yourself, 68s vs 80's. I've been shooting that setup for I think 5 or 6 years and maybe close to a dozen worn out barrels, even though I haven't been able to shoot as much as I need to over that span. Do not be afraid to try a 12!

Just my 2 cents. You said something about bonus points. Can I redeem them for a bottle of Weller? Lol!
 
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Bonus points if you are presently shooting a heavy like a Berger 87gr VLD hunting bullet. :)
@gunsandgunsmithing

While you certainly gave quite a bit of information relevant to my question, you missed qualifying for the bonus.

It seems I do things a bit differently than most, I pick the bullet (or at least the class of bullet) first, and then the barrel so I can have a twist rate appropriate for the bullet.

What I was looking for is the point at which if you wanted to run a heavier bullet you should switch to a cartridge with more powder capacity. For example, Berger makes 245gr 30 cal bullets. I doubt, or at least hope, people would realize those bullets are best used with a cartridge larger than a 308. They are intended for something like a 300 Win Mag. A 105 to 108 works good in a 6 BR but I would not use it in a 6 PPC.

That is the thrust of my question. Where, in the range between a 67gr and a 105 gr bullet, is a 6 PPC no longer the best choice for cartridge? 75? 80? 85? 87? 90?

Twist is something to be determined later. I will get a barrel which has an appropriate twist rate for the bullet selected.

Maybe someone will come back and say they shoot a 105 in a 6 PPC and it is fantastic. That would be interesting.

Thanks!
 
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@gunsandgunsmithing

While you certainly gave quite a bit of information relevant to my question, you missed qualifying for the bonus.

It seems I do things a bit differently than most, I pick the bullet (or at least the class of bullet) first, and then the barrel so I can have a twist rate appropriate for the bullet.

What I was looking for is the point at which if you wanted to run a heavier bullet you should switch to a cartridge with more powder capacity. For example, Berger makes 245gr 30 cal bullets. I doubt, or at least hope, people would realize those bullets are best used with a cartridge larger than a 308. They are intended for something like a 300 Win Mag. A 105 to 108 works good in a 6 BR but I would not use it in a 6 PPC.

That is the thrust of my question. Where, in the range between a 67gr and a 105 gr bullet, is a 6 PPC no longer the best choice for cartridge? 75? 80? 85? 87? 90?

Twist is something to be determined laster. I will get a barrel which has an appropriate twist rate for the bullet selected.

Maybe someone will come back and say they shoot a 105 in a 6 PPC and it is fantastic. That would be interesting.

Thanks!
Well, just my luck! Lol!
I agree that you can get too heavy for the available capacity for a given cartridge to be it's best. I think a 6BR is slightly in that place with the 105-108 class bullets. They work and they are popular, but are they best. Lots of people never test say 95 vld's for example. But run the numbers and the velocity gain vs the 105 makes drift dead nutz equal and you have to test to see which shoots best but, IME, and part of my reply was to this point...shorter bullets are GENERALLY more accurate than longer ones and the longer require faster twists, which equates to more torque and other variables, none of which are beneficial to utmost accuracy potential.
Another example of case capacity and relative efficiency with different bullets is a 280 AI vs a 7 Mag. The 280 runs right with the 7 mag with lighter bullets but lacks the raw capacity to do so with the heavies

I'll end with this. Ferris Pindell, later in his career tested 81gr BT's in a PPC. He said it was like cheating. Based on that, I don't think 80's are out of it's wheel house. But test stuff for yourself. That's how you know this stuff. The internet is great but a lot gets parroted over and over until it's accepted as gospel. Test it and then you will know and then you'll be able to help someone with firsthand experience by sharing what you have learned when it comes up again. Sorry I didn't give you the answer you were hoping for. Get to work and enjoy the experience.
 
Barts 80gr Dominators, if there are any available. A 12 twist barrel, and N133. I personally wouldn't build a competition rifle around a hunting bullet.

4 out of 5 Tack Driver events have been won using the 6PPC with more or less standard twists and bullet combos.
 
Not IME. Any 80's I've seen are too long for a 14 but I have heard of one guy that said he had a 13.5 that shot his 80's good. Not sure what 80 it was/is though. 13 is still theoretically too slow for most 80's. The safe bet is a 1-12 for 80's. Safely stable with any I've seen and regardless what you read, a little faster than minimum required twist leaves NOTHING on the table at all. In fact, I think it may be beneficial, if anything but we're splitting a very fine hair.

Don't want to sound like I'm bragging but National Championships carry a lot of results based weight. I've won a 100-200 grand agg UBR National championship shooting 68's in a 12 twist 6 Grendel and I think twice at 200 with 80's. Again, Nationals! Trust me, it does work. A 6 Grendel and a 6 PPC are so close to one another...the biggest difference is the name. One has a bunch more Nationals than the other, fwiw. You asked specifically about a PPC, so just pointing out that I challenge anyone to truly shoot the difference. You can use the same "data" or PPC loads in the Grendel, but the Grendel does hold just a tad more powder if ya wanna step on it a little more.

Same for stepping up to a 10 twist in a 6 Grendel. Still working with it and it will flat shoot but we might be at or very close to the tipping point in terms of twist being too fast. Hard to say for sure. It is clear though, even the 68's and 80's have consistently been most accurate in it vs the more "twist appropriate" bullet weights. The shorter, lighter bullets just plain out shoot the heavies. I've said that for a long time but this bbl has been a dedicated test dummy to see it and try to find that "tipping point" in a full on BR rifle. Being only one bbl, I don't consider it to be enough to make firm conclusions either way as to if it can be seriously competitive against the more typical 13.5-14 twists, head to head...but it's damn close with the lighter bullets. It has shot very well with 87-95 grain bullets too but there is a clear edge to the 68 and 80's. Not huge, but clear. Long bullets can shoot, just not competitively..consistently, against the lighter bullets at short range and at a high level.

Back to the 12 twists....I'm staying with those over the slower until I see a reason to go back. I've tested that a ton and I'm convinced the 12 is what I'll stick with. Just spec the reamer right and you at least have the ability to test for yourself, 68s vs 80's. I've been shooting that setup for I think 5 or 6 years and maybe close to a dozen worn out barrels, even though I haven't been able to shoot as much as I need to over that span. Do not be afraid to try a 12!

Just my 2 cents. You said something about bonus points. Can I redeem them for a bottle of Weller? Lol!
Yea, I was basing my assumptions on the page in Nosler's reloading manual where the 80 gr. is listed for use with 1 - 14 Twist barrels shown at top right of page..
 

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Yea, I was basing my assumptions on the page in Nosler's reloading manual where the 80 gr. is listed for use with 1 - 14 Twist barrels shown at top right of page..
Interesting that their most accurate load tested was in a setup that shouldn't even be very closevto stable but I'm not sure about the length of their 80s other than being plastic tiped, which doesn't calculate like a standard bullet length for stability. I'll just say that I'd have to see it myself.
 

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