Rail screws stuck!

[wlsnmike]

I have a tikka t3 tac 223 and I bought a t3lite. I want to put the rail off the tac on the lite but I'm stripping out the screws. I ordered a ewg 20 moa for the tac. I have not got the 1st screw out. I can usually handle this kinda thing but these bad boys are in there. Thanks for any help. Haven't been on here in a while due to shoulder surgery. Guess that's why I'm playing with the 223s and 22s

 

[Bobby Bailey]

Often a good sharp rap down on the driver handle will work. You can also use a hand impact driver. If it's loctite, a little heat.
Bobby

 

[deadwooddick]

Heat (heat gun or fine tipped propane torch) on base screws (after removing action from stock). If allenhead recess is rounded out… "beat a TORX bit" into it with a hammer.

 

[M-61]

If they are loctited in heat from a heat gun will turn the loctite back to a liquid....one at a time as the heat dissipates quickly so you heat it and have the tools ready to go. Are they torx or allens...? If you don't know about any loctite then try this first. Loctite or not, the heat will help.
Then if that doesn't work:
Take just the proper bit (no screwdiver yet) and tap them many times with a hammer hoping to jar them enough where with a screwdiver and the bit and ALOT of down force they might go.
If the screws are destroyed (rounded hopelessly) a drill.......left hand twist......very easy to break the bit...patience...and knowing what might be a blind hole.
I'm not a gunsmith but an engine builder......same problems larger scale.....and I don't have to be too concerned with scratches.

 

[DOGCAPPER]

Worst case-Drillem out and tap larger size holes.
Use carbide drill and tap.
LT

 

[wlsnmike]

I got them! They were flat heads. I bent and broke every flathead bit that fit that I had. I used a snap-on impact driver with heat until heads were useless. I took a dermal with a small ball bit and eyeballed a center hole pilot. Then used a reverse easy out type drill bit from craftsman to pop off heads. Had to beat rail off with small rubber hammer. It was either epoxied on or the hardest Loctite I've ever seen. It was clear. Then I used a turbo torch while shooting it with a temp gun finally twisted them out with small vise gripes. Not a scratch,holly crap! Still have to get off the epoxy, but I've had enough fun for the night. Thanks for the help!

 

[M-61]

Great! Flat head (slotted or common) are the worst design ever. I did not think they were used anymore. You stuck with it and got it. Be sure to replace them with a quality torx or allen. There is zero problems using loctite and if it's red, blue or whatever color they will come out with heat. Epoxy too???.....that guy had some serious concerns. The proper fastener,torqued if you like, with loctite, I feel is fine. If anything is shooting loose then I am glad it's not against my shoulder!
Good job....you won!

 

[Rustystud]

Stop before you have to spend a lot of money to repair on your action. Have your screws removed by a professional. It is much easier to remove stuck screws if you have the know how and the right equipment. You should not use heat on your action unless you control it to the screw and limit it to 350 degrees. Even a propane torch will heat up and action to 1,100 degrees.

For future reference to all, don't put any kind of locktite, nail polish, paint on scope base or ring screws. Use high temperature wheel bearing grease and a torque wrench.
Nat Lambeth

 

[jscandale]

Use a hammer and chisel. If that doesn't work, get a bigger hammer. ;D

JS

 

[M-61]

Stop before you have to spend a lot of money to repair on your action. Have your screws removed by a professional. It is much easier to remove stuck screws if you have the know how and the right equipment. You should not use heat on your action unless you control it to the screw and limit it to 350 degrees. Even a propane torch will heat up and action to 1,100 degrees.

For future reference to all, don't put any kind of locktite, nail polish, paint on scope base or ring screws. Use high temperature wheel bearing grease and a torque wrench.
Nat Lambeth

Pretty much I agree. Just trying to help. A heat gun is what I mentioned as it is controllable. Loctite? I use it and like it. My problem when applying ANY lubricant to a screw, bolt,nut, etc., it it changes the torque values drastically. I have yet to see any fastener, when supplied for scope mounting (rings,bases) that gives a torque value AND then tells you what that should be reduced when applying a lubricant. The one I have seen says 'a drop of loctite and toque to '*** inch pounds'. That is a real value as the loctite when initially applied is a lubricant and therefore their given torque amount is (or should be ) correct. Some moly lubes when applied call for a reduction in torque by as much as 60%! ARP (http://www.arp-bolts.com/) Has some very valuable info on hardware, although it is strictly for the auto racing world, in their catalog.

 

[DOGCAPPER]

If you want to split hairs, once the torque value is reached on a bolt it spoils it for a second use. Unless of course it is very low end and not top load..LT

 

[M-61]

If you want to split hairs, once the torque value is reached on a bolt it spoils it for a second use. Unless of course it is very low end and not top load..LT

Yes. Most head bolts are a one time use. To go another step in splitting hairs: Bolt stretch is the way the most accurate bolt tightening is measured in critical situation. (i.e.Connecting rod bolts).
We are well beyond fasteners for mounting a scope.
I like loctite and I like when the manufacturer gives a torque #. One thing I did on a 44mag revolver scope base was put a small drop of red paint that covered only 1/2 the screw head tops. It held nothing together but one glance at those screws told me whether they had moved or not.

 

[wlsnmike]

Easy! I used a temp gun and held torch well away from action, 178 was as hot as i got her. I'm fairly handy and not too ! Rail was factory mounted with what I'm not sure. I got it not a scratch. I trust myself more than any smith around here. Thanks for help and concern. I have screwed up my fair share and would do it all over again. I like working on them, buying them, looking at them almost as much as shooting them. ALMOST

 

[wlsnmike]

I also like loctite and it works as lube until it stiffens up!

 

[Rustystud]

The Machinsist Handbook is the Bible of threads. It says use "molly grease lubricant" to get the best torque value for screws. A properly lubricated and torqued screw will not unscrew in a rifle/scope application. 6-48, 6-40, 8-40, 10-40, screws should be lubricated to prevent galling. They should be torqued with an inch pound torque wrench. This makes them secure and removable later.

All I can say go ahead and use loctite on your scope rings and bases, it provides job security for those in the gun repair business. Stripped heads, snapped off screws cost the average shooter $40-to $150.00 a pop. If you don't listen you will learn the hard and costly way.

Nat Lambeth