Radar and Cancer ... and radar chronographs

[rijndael]

Are any of you following the baseball and tennis players who are getting brain cancer, which could be linked to their sports and the use of radar to track ball velocity?

PR News | NYT Mystified at Brain Cancer in Baseball Players; Others Arent - Tue., Aug. 15, 2017

Baseball players, especially catchers and pitchers, get brain cancer; Darren Daulton

www.odwyerpr.com

Brain cancer deaths of six former Phillies players must be investigated, says Dr. Siegel

Fox News Medical contributor Dr. Marc Siegel called for an investigation into the suspicious deaths of the six former Phillies players who died from brain cancer.

www.foxnews.com

Cluster of testicular cancer in police officers exposed to hand-held radar - PubMed

<p>Within a cohort of 340 police officers, six incident cases of testicular cancer occurred between 1979 and 1991 (O/E 6.9; p < 0.001, Poisson distribution). Occupational use of hand-held radar was the only shared risk factor among all six officers, and all routinely held the radar gun directly...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I admit, I don't know much about the tech as it relates to ballistic chronographs, but it makes me wonder about it as the radar units are usually not far from the shooter's head. Yes, I realize that the beam is pointed down range, but this cancer phenomenon also impacts radar technicians ... and they're generally not having it pointed at them.

 

[Big_Daddy]

Motorcycle cops had issues with the older generation units.
They would leave them transmitting while being held between their legs when not actively using them.

As far as chronographs go, Least of my worries!

 

[jpjulian]

What he ^^^^^ said, but it wasn't just bike cops. Older X & K band traffic radars, usually the hand-held variety didn't have an instant on feature and were always emanating radar energy. It was common practice for an officer to lay the unit in his lap between targeting oncoming vehicles and the groin area absorbed much of that energy. An Ohio trooper with testicular cancer sued, and lost, as the radar manufacturer was able to argue there was no known adverse effects of traffic radar on human tissue. There were other similar lawsuits filed on similar grounds and the manufacturers were able to prevail as there was no medical evidence of any adverse effects with the use of traffic radar at that time. When I went through instructor school in the early 90's we studied this issue and the traffic radars in general use at that time were of the instant on variety and only emanated radar energy when the officer pushed a button and sent the radar beam towards the target vehicle and that beam ceased to emanate when the target speed was locked into the unit. But, we taught students/officers to not leave the radars turned on constantly due to the above lawsuits, even though there was still no medical evidence of any adverse effects. To my knowledge, there have been no known adverse health issues due to the use of traffic radars with instant on features. To my knowledge.............

 

[Straightshooter1]

Are any of you following the baseball and tennis players who are getting brain cancer, which could be linked to their sports and the use of radar to track ball velocity?

PR News | NYT Mystified at Brain Cancer in Baseball Players; Others Arent - Tue., Aug. 15, 2017

Baseball players, especially catchers and pitchers, get brain cancer; Darren Daulton

www.odwyerpr.com

Brain cancer deaths of six former Phillies players must be investigated, says Dr. Siegel

Fox News Medical contributor Dr. Marc Siegel called for an investigation into the suspicious deaths of the six former Phillies players who died from brain cancer.

www.foxnews.com

Cluster of testicular cancer in police officers exposed to hand-held radar - PubMed

<p>Within a cohort of 340 police officers, six incident cases of testicular cancer occurred between 1979 and 1991 (O/E 6.9; p < 0.001, Poisson distribution). Occupational use of hand-held radar was the only shared risk factor among all six officers, and all routinely held the radar gun directly...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I admit, I don't know much about the tech as it relates to ballistic chronographs, but it makes me wonder about it as the radar units are usually not far from the shooter's head. Yes, I realize that the beam is pointed down range, but this cancer phenomenon also impacts radar technicians ... and they're generally not having it pointed at them.

Be careful about what you read, but look for good science reports on the issue. I read a LOT of science, all kinds of science and to date, there's no real evidence that such radar tracking equipment poses any such risk. What you see there is people trying to put dots together that just aren't related. You're kitchen microwave poses more of a threat, yet there's been no link to such cancer. Think about all the telecommunication microwaves going through your room this instant and it goes on 24-7 every day of every year.

My brother was in the Air Force and worked on radars and yet, they can be VERY dangerous, depending on where and how close you were to the magnetron. They are very high power equipment, of course, and you had to be relatively close to have a health issue.

Here a little bit of information from the American Cancer Society:

Does RF Radiation Cause Cancer?

Learn about radiofrequency (RF) radiation, such as microwaves and radio waves, and if it might affect cancer risk.

www.cancer.org

 

[rijndael]

You're kitchen microwave poses more of a threat, yet there's been no link to such cancer.

Microwave ovens are shielded. We've actually uncovered poorly shielded units at work when doing RF mappings of office spaces.

Think about all the telecommunication microwaves going through your room this instant and it goes on 24-7 every day of every year.

I think about it. Part of my job was wifi design and coverage for 20K users on a campus. In wifi designs, the transmitter is only 100mW (maximum) and your RX falls off at a pretty big rate as you get distance from the transmitter, it's actually the "inverse square law". But in the case of the radar unit, it's an arm's reach to your head.

 

[rijndael]

From the LabRadar manual:



So, about a foot in front of the unit...

I'm not particular worried about it, but I do think it's prudent to at least be 'reasonable' about things kind of thing.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

FCC also regulates output of EMF of various everyday items, cellphones,WiFi, etc.

 

[Rank Amateur]

Interesting, but meaningless as presented. Classic correlation vs. causation. Incidence of brain cancer across all major leaguers where radar is used? Catchers, pitchers, and infielders all included in the "cluster", each would be exposed to vastly different microwave exposures from units behind the plate. Every batter would be exposed to roughly the same radiation as the catcher, but they are not included. etc. Familial cancer rates? Environmental exposures across the spectrum of places these individuals lived/worked over their lives? Again, interesting, but not substantive in any way. TV/media personalities commenting on "science" without any real science being done is becoming par for the course...

 

[Krogen]

I think it's important that the majority of RF emissions come from the front of the LabRadar not to the rear where the shooter is. If I spent much time in front of a LabRadar, I'd be more concerned about lead emissions from the muzzle. It seems most reports (anecdotes?) of RADAR induced cancer result from exposure in the RF field.

 

[rijndael]

Every batter would be exposed to roughly the same radiation as the catcher

Catchers and Pitchers are not rotated out with the same frequency as batters.

 

[762willdo]

I think it's important that the majority of RF emissions come from the front of the LabRadar not to the rear where the shooter is. If I spent much time in front of a LabRadar, I'd be more concerned about lead emissions from the muzzle. It seems most reports (anecdotes?) of RADAR induced cancer result from exposure in the RF field.

I’ve wondered about this very thing, I agree that the person shooing is fine but I don’t know how many times I’ve walked down range to check/change target and realized my LabRadar is still transmitting and the cancer thing has crossed my mind, along with the fact I have a defib. In my chest and I’ve a
ways wondered how that would be affected……

 

[rijndael]

I’ve walked down range to check/change target and realized my LabRadar is still transmitting and the cancer thing has crossed my mind

The last sentence of the LabRadar warning label I posted has my attention too.

Does the radar still transmit if it hasn't detected a muzzle blast or inertia trigger?

 

[squint-n-squeeze]

Microwave ovens are shielded. We've actually uncovered poorly shielded units at work when doing RF mappings of office spaces.

Here's an interesting test - if the RF shielding on a microwave is really great, it should block data going to and from your mobile phone, right? In my experience, if you put your phone in the microwave and shut the door, the phone might lose one or two bars off its signal. But it's still able to send RF in and out. That's why it's a good idea to keep your kids / grandkids at least a couple wavelengths away from the microwave (about a foot and a half) while it's running. I remember growing up having my nose pressed to the glass every time

When measuring RF exposure, one big factor is the amount of power drawn by (and therefore emanating from) the transmitter. If your transmitter is plugged into the wall, or a vehicle alternator, it could be sending out hundreds or even thousands of watts. If you're running from a small battery, not so much.

Everyone who runs a Labradar has it out by the end of the barrel, right? So there's a couple feet between the device and your head? That should be plenty.

 

[divingin]

My brother was in the Air Force and worked on radars and yet, they can be VERY dangerous, depending on where and how close you were to the magnetron.

I seem to recall reading that the radar on the MiG-25 Foxbat (the one that Viktor Belenko defected to Japan in) had orders to only power up once airborne, as on the ground it would fry a rabbit at 50 feet. No idea as to the veracity of that claim, but that kind of sticks in my mind.

 

[Ranger188]

I've thought the same thing too.
The Labradar only emits a signal when it's trigger by noise
or a plug-in recoil device. Not all the time.
Otherwise what's the point of having them if it's
emitting all the time.

 

[ASbobcat]

Are any of you following the baseball and tennis players who are getting brain cancer, which could be linked to their sports and the use of radar to track ball velocity?

PR News | NYT Mystified at Brain Cancer in Baseball Players; Others Arent - Tue., Aug. 15, 2017

Baseball players, especially catchers and pitchers, get brain cancer; Darren Daulton

www.odwyerpr.com

Brain cancer deaths of six former Phillies players must be investigated, says Dr. Siegel

Fox News Medical contributor Dr. Marc Siegel called for an investigation into the suspicious deaths of the six former Phillies players who died from brain cancer.

www.foxnews.com

Cluster of testicular cancer in police officers exposed to hand-held radar - PubMed

<p>Within a cohort of 340 police officers, six incident cases of testicular cancer occurred between 1979 and 1991 (O/E 6.9; p < 0.001, Poisson distribution). Occupational use of hand-held radar was the only shared risk factor among all six officers, and all routinely held the radar gun directly...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I admit, I don't know much about the tech as it relates to ballistic chronographs, but it makes me wonder about it as the radar units are usually not far from the shooter's head. Yes, I realize that the beam is pointed down range, but this cancer phenomenon also impacts radar technicians ... and they're generally not having it pointed at them.

Microwave radiation (radar) can also cause cataracts. We were told in the Air Force to never walk/drive in front of a radar equipped aircraft until verifying that the radar was turned off. Just one good blast would guarantee the future outcome. Of course these are much more powerful than a handheld radar.

 

[Dos XX]

I always wear a lead codpiece for just such occasions.

 

[Rank Amateur]

Catchers and Pitchers are not rotated out with the same frequency as batters.

Right, but. I'm not trying to pick a fight, but I (and I'm sure many others on this site) have spent decades writing, executing, analyzing, interpreting, reviewing, editing scientific research studies and data. This is an example of anecdotal evidence and correlation. Show evidence of a higher incidence of brain cancer among ALL catchers at higher rates than other positions. Show evidence that home plate umpires have a similarly higher incidence than officials covering other positions (and that exhibit a similar incidence to the catchers they are standing behind (so they have higher exposure than the catchers)). Control those observations with individuals having the same cancer backgrounds and environmental exposures but without speed radar exposure. Then you might be able to make observations that are better than coincidence. Science would require an hypothesis that is then tested in a controlled manner. Collecting several anecdotes and lumping them together with one possible contributing factor isn't science.

 

[rijndael]

Right, but. I'm not trying to pick a fight, but I (and I'm sure many others on this site) have spent decades writing, executing, analyzing, interpreting, reviewing, editing scientific research studies and data. This is an example of anecdotal evidence and correlation.

OK. Got it.

Your standard of actionable data is different from mine. I don't need indisputable data to tell me it's not a good idea to put my head forward of the radar chronograph, inside of .2 meters.

I'm fine with anecdotal evidence steering me away from certain behaviors that may negatively impact my health. I'm not saying that's the case here, that's why I started this thread, I wanted more information. I'm just saying I don't need double blind studies and whatnot as my only guide here.

I'd also note that folks in their 70s may have different thresholds for what they care about than a guy in his 30s.

 

[ebb]

Good question, and thanks for asking it. I had never even thought it could be a problem.