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Quick question on neck size..

I keep reading to just neck size when people are posting about useing a full length die.
Is it possible to just neck size correctly with a full length die? Or do you need a dedicated neck sizing die..?

Iam messing with a bolt .308 hunting rifle just for fun useing remington 150gr bullets. I useing a hornady headspace gauge measure the factory rounds and just return the brass to that factory spec after fireing. Just to make it easy say if the hornady says its 1.000 then 1.003 after fireing, I put the brass back to 1.000.. i am speaking of were the shoulder is not length of the brass of course.

I guess I should just buy a neck die correct? It seems like why even resize it at all for this gun till they get to tight..

I didnt want to take over Conasos thread...so I posted this one..

Thanks in advance..
Shawn.
 
I did a full circle. Went from full length resizing to just neck sizing and then eventually to full length resizing again. It just makes more sense to me to bump the shoulders back .001-.002 every time you resize. To clarify that's what I mean to full length size, to bump the shoulders back a couple thousandths so every piece of brass will load with little to no crush with the bolt closing.
 
Thank you for the replies. I think I will just start sizeing the brass .001 or .002 that come out of my gun when reloading them instead of putting them back to the factory of .003 or whatever. If the bolt closes easy than it should be good to go and maybe even more accurate.. I reload a ton of pistol and a lot of .223 but iam trying to get some education on loading for a larger caliber bolt gun while iam working on this one right now.. Its the perfect time..so I have put everything else on the back burner.

I guess when neck sizeing with a F/L die you just don't screw it down far enough to touch the shoulder.. Correct? Right now iam just trying to get the brass correct setting the COAL to just book value.. One step at a time. And it's an old Remington not any sort of bench gun so groups are not gona be one hole.
 
A full length die is not meant to just neck size a case...
Ideally you should full length size every time for maximum efficiency...
 
It is not necessary to use a headspace gauge to set a full-length resizing die correctly. Brass may "grow" slightly in length with a properly adjusted FL die, but that is because you're moving metal when you size the neck and body of a fired case. The good news is, that is why the case trimmer was invented.

To the OP, you may find the shoulders move on your commercial brass after the first firing anywhere from about .005" to as much as .008" after the brass has expanded to fit the chamber. It is only necessary to knock the shoulder back about .001" to .002" to easily fit back in the chamber. If you continually knock the shoulder all the way back to the factory length, you may well start to see case head separation after a certain number of firings, usually far fewer than it's life should be. That is because you're compressing and over-stretching the case wall more than necessary. It will soon start to give at the weakest point, which is about where it thins out into the case wall proper, just above the heavier brass of the webbing region.

To set your resizing die, first read the instructions that came with it. In general, if you screw the die body all the way down with the ram in its uppermost position, you'll end up with the shoulders knocked back very close to where they started out as virgin brass. Many dies use 7/8-14" threads, which means there are 14 turns per linear inch of movement as the die is turned. If 14 turns moves the die body one inch, it is easy to calculate how much of a turn is necessary to move it ~ .001", or .005", or any amount you desire. For example, (14 turns/1.000") = ("x" turns/.001") >>> solve for "x", which comes out to .014. Deciding how much of a turn .014 is equal to is not so easy for most, so you just multiply by 360 degrees (one full turn) to get 5.04 degrees. So you need to turn a 7/8-14 thread die about 5 degrees to get .001" linear movement.

Now you can measure the cartridge base-to-shoulder (CBTS) distance of a few unfired rounds, and a few fired rounds, takes the average of those measurements, and determine how far the shoulder is moving (on average) after firing. Screw your FL sizing die all the way down, size a couple pieces of brass, and do the same measurements (before/after) to determine how much it pushes the shoulder back. If it's more than .001" to .002", you'll need to back the die out by about 5 degrees (from screwed all the way down) for every .001" you need, so that you're only moving the shoulder back a total of about .001" to .002". This is not rocket science; you may have to play with it a bit and resize several cases to get it set where you want it, but it's not a big deal, those cases will still be useable. Once you have the die body set where you want it, you tighten down the lock ring and you're GTG. With the lock ring sufficiently tightened, you then use the lock ring (not the die body) with the lock ring tool to tighten or unscrew the die from the press. That way, you're not messing up your adjustment when putting the die the press, or taking it out. I find the most difficult part of the whole process is if the die body wants to turn as you're tightening down the lock ring after you already have the die set properly. You just have to be cautious that tightening the lock ring doesn't turn the die from your desired height setting. Not a huge deal, but something you need to watch. If you're using dies with a different thread than 7/8-14, you simply change the calculation above to reflect the thread pitch of the actual dies you're using.

Once you have set your resizing die in the manner I described above, if you use it to size virgin brass, you will find it does not even touch the shoulder; it only sizes the neck with whatever size bushing you have in it. So dies set up in this way can also be used to prep the necks of virgin brass, which may not be very consistent straight out of the box.
 
I'm going to be setting up my F/L bushing die for my 6.5x47. Should I attempt to get the die set up to bump the shoulder first without the bushing? Then come back and get the bushing in it afterward?

Leatherstocking-I am using the Hornady/Stoney comparator.
 
Thoughts on the Forster bump/bushing dies which theoretically allow a shoulder bump without FL resizing the case body?
 
It is not necessary to use a headspace gauge to set a full-length resizing die correctly. Brass may "grow" slightly in length with a properly adjusted FL die, but that is because you're moving metal when you size the neck and body of a fired case. The good news is, that is why the case trimmer was invented.

To the OP, you may find the shoulders move on your commercial brass after the first firing anywhere from about .005" to as much as .008" after the brass has expanded to fit the chamber. It is only necessary to knock the shoulder back about .001" to .002" to easily fit back in the chamber. If you continually knock the shoulder all the way back to the factory length, you may well start to see case head separation after a certain number of firings, usually far fewer than it's life should be. That is because you're compressing and over-stretching the case wall more than necessary. It will soon start to give at the weakest point, which is about where it thins out into the case wall proper, just above the heavier brass of the webbing region.

To set your resizing die, first read the instructions that came with it. In general, if you screw the die body all the way down with the ram in its uppermost position, you'll end up with the shoulders knocked back very close to where they started out as virgin brass. Many dies use 7/8-14" threads, which means there are 14 turns per linear inch of movement as the die is turned. If 14 turns moves the die body one inch, it is easy to calculate how much of a turn is necessary to move it ~ .001", or .005", or any amount you desire. For example, (14 turns/1.000") = ("x" turns/.001") >>> solve for "x", which comes out to .014. Deciding how much of a turn .014 is equal to is not so easy for most, so you just multiply by 360 degrees (one full turn) to get 5.04 degrees. So you need to turn a 7/8-14 thread die about 5 degrees to get .001" linear movement.

Now you can measure the cartridge base-to-shoulder (CBTS) distance of a few unfired rounds, and a few fired rounds, takes the average of those measurements, and determine how far the shoulder is moving (on average) after firing. Screw your FL sizing die all the way down, size a couple pieces of brass, and do the same measurements (before/after) to determine how much it pushes the shoulder back. If it's more than .001" to .002", you'll need to back the die out by about 5 degrees (from screwed all the way down) for every .001" you need, so that you're only moving the shoulder back a total of about .001" to .002". This is not rocket science; you may have to play with it a bit and resize several cases to get it set where you want it, but it's not a big deal, those cases will still be useable. Once you have the die body set where you want it, you tighten down the lock ring and you're GTG. With the lock ring sufficiently tightened, you then use the lock ring (not the die body) with the lock ring tool to tighten or unscrew the die from the press. That way, you're not messing up your adjustment when putting the die the press, or taking it out. I find the most difficult part of the whole process is if the die body wants to turn as you're tightening down the lock ring after you already have the die set properly. You just have to be cautious that tightening the lock ring doesn't turn the die from your desired height setting. Not a huge deal, but something you need to watch. If you're using dies with a different thread than 7/8-14, you simply change the calculation above to reflect the thread pitch of the actual dies you're using.

Once you have set your resizing die in the manner I described above, if you use it to size virgin brass, you will find it does not even touch the shoulder; it only sizes the neck with whatever size bushing you have in it. So dies set up in this way can also be used to prep the necks of virgin brass, which may not be very consistent straight out of the box.
Thanks.. This s pretty much how I set up my dies to only move the shoulder the amount I want.. basically starting with the die backed out and screwing it in while checking the brass with the hornady headspace gauge till I get what I want... I will just pick up a neck die for neck sizing.
 
Thanks.. This s pretty much how I set up my dies to only move the shoulder the amount I want.. basically starting with the die backed out and screwing it in while checking the brass with the hornady headspace gauge till I get what I want... I will just pick up a neck die for neck sizing.

Sure, you can get where you want from either direction. By your method, I'd start by tightening down on a fully fire formed piece of brass, then tighten down .001" to .002" more, as opposed to using virgin brass and backing it out .004" to .005". That is probably the better way to do it in reality, you're starting with the final (max length) product and shortening it slightly.
 
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