Questions on breaking in Savage .308 Build

[rocknut]

I recently screwed together a Savage model 11 action in .308 to a really nice Shilen barrel. I head spaced it correctly where both my go gauge and full sized brass fit nicely. Then I tried to find a starting OAL by inserting a 155 SMK and 168 SMK bullets to find out where they would touch the lands. In my ignorance I wrote a post here stating that I had a tight chamber as the 168 SMK met the lands at 2.730. I was educated in the fact that I had a tight throat, not a tight chamber (head space is fine, thanks). I called Jim at Northland who I purchased the barrel from and he assured me that if I started with a shorter and lighter bullet or one with a longer ogive, I would be fine and that the throat would slowly erode out to a more reasonable length. I can load a 155 SMK and touch the lands at 2.815 or so. So I have been shooting those to break in the barrel. In my ignorance again, I assumed because this is a hand lapped barrel;that I didn't have to do the shoot one clean one to bare steel thing for 10 rounds. I shot a couple of rounds and cleaned, then tried to shoot a couple groups of three. I got a group of about an inch at 200 yards which I thought was pretty decent. I thought I cleaned the barrel pretty well with a 50/50 mix of Kroil oil and Hoppes #9 that I have been using, then used Montana Copper Cream to go after the copper. Shot a couple more groups of three, then I got tired of cleaning and tried a group of 5 that was about 3". I didn't feel like I was really getting the copper fouling out so got home and used JB paste on a bronze brush with a patch on it. Barrel cleaned up nicely. Have no idea what damage I am doing to the barrel though. Went out for another session and got about the same results. First three rounds out of the barrel where pretty good. Then dispite my best efforts to clean the barrel in the field, the barrel seems to foul worse with every group of three. I now have about 40 rounds thru the barrel. The 155's are now touching at about 2.828 or so. I take it the throat is eroding as it should. Maybe I can get those 168's & 175's out soon. Thanks for sticking it out thru this rather long winded post. But where do I go from here? Am I on the right track with the cleaning thing or should I go back and shot one clean one? Should I continue to us JB's to get back to bare metal after each session? I can't seem to get there with Kroil/Hoppes and a bronze brush & Copper Cream and a nylon brush. Is this unusual for a hand lapped barrel to copper foul so badly?

 

[bsc4444]

Different barrels break in differently. I just had a Bartlein put on my 300 win mag and broke it in yesterday. I think you got in a hurry on the cleaning and shoot. I cleaned after every shot for 10 rounds. I didn't realize but after the 9th shot no fouling....I am done. My cleaning method is. One dry patch followed by 2 soaked patches of TM solution let sit for 5 min. then 10 strokes with a GOOD bronze brush. Let sit for 5 min. Then 3 to 5 dry patches. I then tested my cleaning by running a soaked patch of TM and let it sit for a couple of minutes. Patched it out.. if I was satisfied I ran a LIGHTLY oiled patch and re-shot. I realize the break in is a little boring that's why you listen to a little of Gun's and Roses and AC-DC and take a lawn chair. I think I would try a different cleaning solution and make sure the barrel is clean and not layering copper on top of copper. TAKE YOUR TIME.
Brad
ps. A great way to test you have all the copper out soak a patch with Sweets and run it down the barrel. Only let it set 5 minutes or so. No more than 15 per the bottle instructions. If it comes out blue you have copper. If you think you are getting the blue from the jag wrap it with a thin layer of cling wrap and then soak a patch.

 

[rocknut]

Thanks for ]your thoughts Brad. I will see if I can pick up some TM solution. It sounds like a much simpler solution than trying to use a chemical to take out the carbon fouling, then patch clean to where I can get something to get at the copper. I suppose that's where my frustrations lie. It takes me 15 minutes to clean after every firing cycle. So it was taking me nearly an hour to go thru 3 rounds! I do want to get away from the abrasive cleaners I have been using. I don't want to ruin this barrel. I have only broken in one other barrel. It was a cheap Adams & Bennet stainless barrel I put on a Mauser. If I remember correctly it took me a couple hundred rounds to really get it to quit fouling on me. I was just hoping that a hand lapped barrel would be less labor intensive. Again I will try the TM solution as it sounds like a much better product for this purpose.

 

[Tim Singleton]

You don't mention the twist rate of your barrel?

I wouldn't worry to much about the shoot one clean one thing IMO
I wouldn't think you need the JB and a bronze brush.
I use wipe out patch out several wet and dry patches then sweets to get the copper.

I think your cleaning system is fine again minus the JB and bronze brush at this point.

 

[rocknut]

The barrel is a 1:10 twist. It seems to shoot the 155 SMK Palmas I have been shooting thru it. I shot about 25 rounds thru it yesterday cleaning after every three rounds. It was shooting about 1 1/2" at 200 yds. Not great, about the same as my Mauser. I'm hoping it will tighten up as the barrel seasons and I do some load development. At this point I just loaded them about .020 off the lands and used a medium load of imr 4320 as I have bunch of that. The barrel still seems to be slowly fouling up using kroil/hope's #9 then the copper cream and nylon brush. I have to run a patch with JB's to get it to completely clean up. Will pick up some TM solution or some Wipe out asap as that sounds like a better way to go. Thanks for the input.

 

[Erik Cortina]

I called Jim at Northland who I purchased the barrel from and he assured me that if I started with a shorter and lighter bullet or one with a longer ogive, I would be fine and that the throat would slowly erode out to a more reasonable length.

What a load of BS! How about using the proper reamer for the intended bullet or using a throating reamer to extend the throat instead of using up barrel life to erode it?
Did he also assure you that if you follow his advise you will burn up the barrel sooner and will be calling him back for another barrel sooner than you should?


Anyway, back to the topic.

Don't worry about cleaning so much. Switch to the desired bullet and start working up a load and clean every 50 shots or so. I don't know how bad it's fouling, but if it's excessive, I would send barrel back and have it examined assuming your cleaning method is effective.

 

[Keith Glasscock]

I also would not worry about cleaning so much. I have a Krieger that fouled like heck for the first 1000 rounds. After I quit worrying about the copper, I realized that it shot terrific! That silly barrel would, and still does, go 150+ rounds (as far as I'm willing to go) without ay hint of accuracy degradation.

I'd suggest load development too. Your groups are likely due to the load being a constant that is just a bit off the node.