Questions for 6.5X47L shooters

[40X Guy]

I am really liking my new 6.5X47 build and already have taken it to 3 matches in last 5-6 weeks, It was not difficult to find my load pretty fast which consists of: CCI 450 primers, new Lapua brass of course, 41.2 grains of H4350, and a 123 Sierra MK at .010 off the lands in a Rock Creek 29.5 inch barrel .292 no turn neck based on a Savage PT action. The rifle is shooting bughole groups and shoots better than I can, but I am working on my technique. 8). My questions concern loading my 160 pieces of once fired brass and I am just looking for a general consensus on techniques used by forum members with more experiance loading this round.

1. Neck size or FL size once fired brass? Also how much of the neck to size?
2. Tools or techniques used to clean primer pockets, I left pockets alone first firing and only checked flash holes. I have a Dewey crocogator and the Sinclair uniformer tool, but I am thinking not to take any brass out off the primer pockets with the Sinclair tool?
3. I have an annealer machine and should I anneal after about 2 firings?
4. Cases measured after firing measure from 1.835 to 1.840, should i trim them all to 1.835, or let them go for one more firing?

I am wanting to do this the right way, and I am not totally inexperianced in the reloading department, but I would like to squeeze all i can out of this very accurate round. I have learned tons of info here from the fellow members since I planned this build 10 months ago. My dies are Redding S-Match FL and neck dies, and i seat bullets using an arbor press with a Wilson hand die. I was pleasently surprised how easy it was finding my load in under 50 rounds fired but i did my homework here reading for hours. Thanks!

Frank

 

[Erik Cortina]

1. FL size, 3/4 of the way down.
2. Uniform the pockets, only take enough out to make the pockets flat.
3. Anneal every time.
4. Trim them all to 1.835"

 

[40X Guy]

Erik, thanks for the reply, as far as uniforming the pockets, by hand or chuck uniformer in tool? I am thinking by hand just to remove the primer carbon/debris and flatten out the pocket.

Frank

 

[Erik Cortina]

Either way works, as long as you make them "uniform", you want all your primers to seat equally and slightly below flush.

 

[Shynloco]

Erik,
I agree with the idea of making all the brass uniform after each shooting. I guess what I'm not getting is why anneal each time? I've always believed elasticity of brass doesn't dull until several firings, especially when using Lapua brass which is a given. Clue me in please. Thx

Alex

 

[nhm16]

If you have a Bench Source annealing machine, it's so easy, why take any chances?

 

[Erik Cortina]

That's correct. I have a Bench Source machine and it takes less time than resizing brass to anneal. I do the same thing to my brass every time, including annealing.

 

[Shynloco]

If you have a Bench Source annealing machine, it's so easy, why take any chances?

WOW! Is that a neat machine or what! Obviously I live in the dark ages. Gonna definitely have to save up for one of those babies. Thanks guys!

 

[40X Guy]

Yes, the Bench Source machine is the way to go, ranks up there along side my Hawkeye in importance and making life easier. Got all 160 pieces prepped in last few days and only need to prime and dump powder. Thanks everyone!

Frank

 

[ktoney]

There are 2 schools of thought on this FL or neck only i,m in the neck size only group
why
1. ya just fire formed brass to you chamber, why would you then FL size it

2. Neck sizing is works brass was less than FL

3. Never seen any empirical data that one is better than other

4. Annealing is good, every time maybe over kill but each to their own method of madness

Erik shot i shot a 197 7x @ 500 while setting zero for load dev, just need to find time for load work

 

[Erik Cortina]

Good shooting Toney, but I have some questions for you.

The reason to FL size is to shoot brass that is identical every time, if you neck size only your brass eventually will get to the point that you will not be able to chamber it anymore, and at that point you have to FL size, therefore you will start over from there. Is your brass the same every time? Get you a FL neck bushing die and set it up properly. You can thank me later. ;D

Working brass less by neck sizing only? What do you think the annealing is for?

Overkill to anneal every time? Think about it.
Consistency = Accuracy. I do the same thing to my brass every time, do you?

 

[270guy]

Hi All,
sorry not trying to hijack the post, ?? along similar lines.

If I f/l resize each time, how do I handle the annealing each time, if I don't want to buy or build an annealing machine? What I'm really saying, is how do I do it so I don't screw up my brass? Is there an idiot proof way to handle it (the annealing)? I'm not doing a heap of shooting, but why build a rifle if you don't want the best out of it?
cheers

 

[ktoney]

Erik
When you FL size you work body of case, you cant anneal case body but only neck

Why have a custom match chamber and not utilize brass formed to that chamber?
once its fire-formed its consistent to your chamber dimensions.

I had a FL sizer just in case when i shot 308, 15 or so reloads not never needed to use it, all brass was win brand and neck sized only
So now i,m using 6.5x47 lapua brass, lets face it this stuff is nuke proof
I have 3 loads on brass it has not grown since it was fireformed, i know i measured it new and after every firing. So based on my experience using cheap win brass n 308 n data thus far on x47 i know my brass is consistent per numerous measurements i took
My preference, i want that fire formed fit between brass and chamber
Your chamber was cut with x reamer, did that same reamer cut your dies?
If not there wil be a mismatch between chamber n sizing die
Thats why custom dies are made to spec of fired brass, neck sizing ensures that custom fit without expense of custom dies.
Not saying FL is wrong just not how i do for reasons i stated above.
I dont anneal yet but will as i do believe it improves neck tension consistency, every time? i would have to research that more i think every 3rd firing is commonly accepted as good practice.
Always enjoy comparing what n whys
More than one way to skin a cat
Each to his own method of madness when comes to precision reloading

 

[40X Guy]

First thing I did was clean case/neck shoulder area with Never-Dull, then I ended up just neck sizing my once fired cases with a .288 bushing in my Redding S-Match neck die and sized exactly 3/4 of the neck. Then I cleaned the primer pockets using the Sinclair uniformer tool in my hand held holder, then after inspecting the primers pockets (no brass really removed) a few still had some carbon in the pocket which was quickly removed using a Dewey Crocogator. Then trimmed all of them to 1.835 and then case mouth deburred. Then a good tumble for an hour in 3 separate batches, I used same load I had found. Rifle shot better than it did with new brass, and I took a 3rd place today in a LR Groundhog match in heavy mirage. Love this 6.5X47L!

After the 2nd firing I will follow Erics advice to a T and anneal plus FL size the cases to the headspace measurement of my fired cases after 1 firing which I recorded. Quite a cartridge and I am glad I built one!

So I guess I subscribe to both schools of thought in this thread as far as sizing, but i will say this, 2 rounds I chambered today the bolt closed harder than the other 22 rounds, and I can honestly say that they were probably flyers.

Frank

 

[Erik Cortina]

First thing I did was clean case/neck shoulder area with Never-Dull, then I ended up just neck sizing my once fired cases with a .288 bushing in my Redding S-Match neck die and sized exactly 3/4 of the neck. Then I cleaned the primer pockets using the Sinclair uniformer tool in my hand held holder, then after inspecting the primers pockets (no brass really removed) a few still had some carbon in the pocket which was quickly removed using a Dewey Crocogator. Then trimmed all of them to 1.835 and then case mouth deburred. Then a good tumble for an hour in 3 separate batches, I used same load I had found. Rifle shot better than it did with new brass, and I took a 3rd place today in a LR Groundhog match in heavy mirage. Love this 6.5X47L!

After the 2nd firing I will follow Erics advice to a T and anneal plus FL size the cases to the headspace measurement of my fired cases after 1 firing which I recorded. Quite a cartridge and I am glad I built one!

So I guess I subscribe to both schools of thought in this thread as far as sizing, but i will say this, 2 rounds I chambered today the bolt closed harder than the other 22 rounds, and I can honestly say that they were probably flyers.

Frank

40X Guy,
Glad to hear it worked out for you. PM me and I will tell you how to prep your brass and also tell you how to setup your FL die properly so that your brass chambers the same way every time.

 

[ktoney]

Sizing aside
Neck tension above all else will affect accuracy IMHO
Neck turning like annealing its something i plan on doing going forward but only enough to clean up neck as i dont have a tight neck chamber.

Annealing brass then not ensuring neck O/D is consistent via turning would seem counterproductive, like annealing its a topic i have researched enough that i believe it has merit.

Bullets do vary even the best Berger/Lpaua will have some variance i find when a round seems harder to chamber i set aside, inspection of brass and bullet always shows a bullet with longer ogive and as i shoot with .010 jam a few thou will make it discernibly tighter to chamber

No i dont separate bullets via ogive measurement prior to loading, rather i have found doing it by feel on chambering a round works and is way less tedious.

So my brass prep will evolve somewhat but not to the point of obsession
i will not weigh brass, pointless as case weight has no correlation to internal capacity, i know as have done wet cap procedure on way more cases than i care to admit to.
i will not cut primer pockets, tested several times as have others, no measurable gain to warrant effort
i will not measure bullets, yes there will be some odd nuts in a batch, my method is quicker n way less tedious, just set it aside n chamber another one.
My current method was good enough for 197 7x @ 500, no spotter, no pit service, no spotting disc
A correctly developed load will do much to minimize any variances in brass or bullet and I definitively agree with that school of thought above anything tweaking brass yields
DO i need a gyroscopic bullet tester (Vern Juenke ICC unit)to ensure it is correctly balanced, Nope
but they make them and folk buy them
Welcome to the wacky world of precision reloading

 

[Erik Cortina]

Toney, the best way to know if you have a good load worked out it to show up to a F-Class match at Bayou Rifle Club one of these days. By the end of the day you will know what you have.

About your 197-7x, did you lose the three points to vertical or wind? And on the remainding 17 shots, how many were "X" ring vertical?

 

[ktoney]

I have A 1k range right here @ BOTW 20min from house, Bayou is just far enough i would be needing meds which would mean no shooting period for me. How would i fair in competition dunno I dont think i,m ready yet, But if ya want a friendly shoot off swing by BOTW i,m game be interesting to see how i stack up or not
Looking @ Target right now, 13 of the 20 went into 2" vertical, 4" wind. QL did a pert good job once I tweak it for all variables, objective was solely to get a zero for load work didnt expect it shoot that good but Mark built it so must have used some extra pixie dust
Shot 2 20shot strings that day another was a 195 5x IIRC
2.5" 1/2 MOA X not 5" MOA X
I need more time working out kinks with free recoil and the NEO, truely i think it was my lack luster shooting but not having any reference to last shot POI dont make it easier
Do i think annealing and neck turning to clean up neck will help ... YES but mostly I need more practice manipulating NEO and free recoil which something i have not shot before.
So more the Indian than the bow

 

[Erik Cortina]

13 out of 20 into 2" vertical? That's great, where did the other 7 shots go?

 

[ktoney]

3 got away from me, wind, mirage ... more likely just me not being on game
The others were out of main group but not crazy out to indicate load issue just enuff to show that i got lazy ... all in 10 ring
Still i was establishing zero for load work so both me n mark were surprised when we pulled targets, used 5.75 MOA from 250yds to get to 500, 140berger vld, no ejector wipe etc no flattened primers
So i have more than enuff Fps, every program i have used gives me well its for sure 6.5-284 fast
No chrono so dont know for sure but more interested in accuracy, so wont be loading any hotter.
New rear bag with heavy sand made a huge difference thnx for all your advice so far, the NEO is well what can ya say SEB just rocks.
Cant blame equip as i have best $$ can buy, Mark built rifle
so that just leaves me as the variable