Question Full size or Neck size brass for Accuracy ?

[rcol317]

I'm curious the experiences of shooters. While I've always sized neck sized my brass with bushing to control mention I read an article recently that the best shooters used full size dies with bushings. Was surprised because I always thought that best accuracy came from fire formed brass to chamber? Would appreciate some experience input. Thanks Rick

 

[Dusty Stevens]

The best accuracy comes from very uniform brass and a bolt that works without fighting it. Neck sizing went out of style in the 50's once folks realized how much better the whole system worked after fl sizing.

 

[Keith Glasscock]

I agree with Dusty about fl sizing. I fl size only enough to get easy bolt closure (.001 target for headspace).

I also use dies that work the brass the least amount possible. If I can get it, I try to reduce the body diameter no more than necessary for easy chambering, but my budget leaves me using commercial dies. Nonetheless, I have been quite fortunate to find what I need for a reasonable price.

 

[nmkid]

I neck-sized for many years and didn't care about the, "sometimes" hard bolt closing. Then I started using the Redding FL Type S dies and suddenly I became an expert shooters! LOL. Really, I have targets that show the decrease of group sizes when all I changed was to Type S FL dies.

 

[savagedasher]

I only partial neck size. The die use is special made. It only works the brass including the 1 and1/2 thousand smaller then the chamber. I then use the total case and half of the neck as a guide. I use the bushing first then i do my sizing. when I done it in reverse I found the bushing was moving the case back at neck area. That was un acceptable to me. The way I now do it has lowered me ES and SD. The same process when others did it the got they same results as I did. Is it correct way to do it? You can decide. Larry

 

[Catfish]

Neck size only will work as well or better than FL sizing in low pressure loads that do not expand the brass to the max. I fact you can neck turn to zero neck expansion and with low pressure loads you do not even need to neck size and your brass will last for about ever.

 

[rcol317]

Thanks for the input, pretty much confirmed what i read in the article. The challenge I think is to keep the brass straight so that it is still concentric after sized. Appreciate all the responses. Got to love this site for all the help it is!!!

 

[K22]

Full size with a .001 to .002 shoulder bump will give you the best accuracy and functionality.

 

[tcr1146]

I used to think I knew reloading but obviously a babe in the woods. For example, the guy above says "bump the shoulder" .001 to .002"?! Just how do I know how to do that?! My full length Redding deluxe die set calls for running the ram all the way to the top, turn the die down to touch the shell holder and then drop the ram and turn the fl die 1/8 to 1/4 turn deeper! Explain how any of that gets me a .001 shoulder bump?! Thanks, Tom

 

[Tim Singleton]

I used to think I knew reloading but obviously a babe in the woods. For example, the guy above says "bump the shoulder" .001 to .002"?! Just how do I know how to do that?! My full length Redding deluxe die set calls for running the ram all the way to the top, turn the die down to touch the shell holder and then drop the ram and turn the fl die 1/8 to 1/4 turn deeper! Explain how any of that gets me a .001 shoulder bump?! Thanks, Tom

There are a lot of different tools out there. They all serve the same purpose attaching to a set of calipers giving a method to measure from base to shoulder of the case
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/479704/hornady-lock-n-load-headspace-gage-5-bushing-set-with-comparator

 

['Freak]

I used to think I knew reloading but obviously a babe in the woods. For example, the guy above says "bump the shoulder" .001 to .002"?! Just how do I know how to do that?! My full length Redding deluxe die set calls for running the ram all the way to the top, turn the die down to touch the shell holder and then drop the ram and turn the fl die 1/8 to 1/4 turn deeper! Explain how any of that gets me a .001 shoulder bump?! Thanks, Tom

The FL size die setup instructions included with your new die set might work well enough for resizing brass in the making of “fits all” rounds intended to easily chamber in anybody’s hunting/plinking rifle. But they likely are not going to work “well enough” if the brass being resized is intended to be returned to and forever used only in the chamber they were fired initially.

After a case has been fired a couple or more times in the same chamber and if the case body is allowed to grow in length from case head to shoulder datum, then eventually it’ll grow to the point where the case body completely fills the full length of the chamber. Once the case body is at this point, you’ll want to take a measurement from the case head to the shoulder datum and record it for future reference whilst adjusting your FL size die so it’ll setback the case shoulder a thousandth or two, which a lot of folk feel is good and plenty adequate bolt face to case head clearance for a bolt gun.

 

[tcr1146]

In that case ole freak, why for a casual informer bench rester long range varminter like myself, would neck sizing only be better than fl sizing?! I shoot my 22-250 in an older 40xb and so far, the rounds chamber freely! Not sure why I would want to bring the body back to factory original by full length sizing!? Tom

 

[fguffey]

While I've always sized neck sized my brass with bushing to control mention I read an article recently that the best shooters used full size dies with bushings. Was surprised because I always thought that best accuracy came from fire formed brass to chamber?

The best accuracy comes from an accurate rifle. I have rifles that can not be improved upon. I have rifles that shoot patterns like shotguns. One rifle I bid on cost $120.00. It was decided by reloading forums it was the ugliest. I could not believe anyone could build anything that ugly without knowing what they were doing, there was a chance I was bidding on a rifle that was worth the sum of the parts.

I loaded 12 loads of 10 rounds each using 12 different head stamps, different bullets, different powders/ different loads with total disregard for the fit between the case and chamber. I installed a base, rings and scope that cost more than the rifle.

There was nothing about the design that allowed the rifle to cool so it took all day, I applied the leaver policy, for $120.00 I lefter the way I founder.

F. Guffey

 

[fguffey]

The FL size die setup instructions included with your new die set might work well enough for resizing brass in the making of “fits all” rounds intended to easily chamber in anybody’s hunting/plinking rifle.

My dies and presses have threads, threads allow me to adjust the die. I can return a case back to minimum length/full length sized, I do find it necessary to know/understand minimum length, full length sized, go-gage length, no go-gage length and field reject length.

Then there are effects/factors.

F. Guffey

 

[amlevin]

I think that the question needs to be narrowed some. Is F/L sizing better than Neck Sizing in a Factory chamber? Is it better in a Custom Chamber.

There are a lot of people that are F/L sizing for nice tight custom chambers that had reamers ground to fit their FL sized cases. There are also those who have factory chambers, or chambers cut with off the shelf reamers and use custom dies made specifically for those chambers.


Then there are those who merely neck size and achieve great accuracy.

To which group does this question really apply?

 

[fourpower]

I went to forester bump dies and have never looked back. it hardly works the brass at all and I almost never have to trim! I got a larry willis headspace tool that lets me check headspace on all guns I reload for and it works great and is very easy to use.

 

[tenring]

A good many benchrest shooters use the Wilson chamber type sizer. It partially sizes about 2/3rds of the neck. The advantage to partial neck sizing is that it leaves about 30% just above the shoulder unsized, aiding concentric alignment with the chamber neck.

 

[tcr1146]

Not sure how I offended you ole freak!? I am just trying to get my arms around the above consensus that after all these years fl sizing is more accuracy inducing than neck sizing which I started in the early 90s! Anyway, I guess I am just confused! No, I am not trolling and do not want to waste anyone's time! I guess it will be best to just read and not ask questions! Thanks guys! Tom

 

[rcol317]

I think that the question needs to be narrowed some. Is F/L sizing better than Neck Sizing in a Factory chamber? Is it better in a Custom Chamber.

There are a lot of people that are F/L sizing for nice tight custom chambers that had reamers ground to fit their FL sized cases. There are also those who have factory chambers, or chambers cut with off the shelf reamers and use custom dies made specifically for those chambers.


Then there are those who merely neck size and achieve great accuracy.

To which group does this question really apply?

Not sure I understand the question or the difference. When I consider the custom rifles I have it seems my custom rifles with special reamer are only tighter necks, rest of dimensions a the same and the neck is controlled by the bushing when I size so don't see the difference. What am I missing? I do understand statements about better accuracy with the full size die.

 

[rcol317]

I think that the question needs to be narrowed some. Is F/L sizing better than Neck Sizing in a Factory chamber? Is it better in a Custom Chamber.

There are a lot of people that are F/L sizing for nice tight custom chambers that had reamers ground to fit their FL sized cases. There are also those who have factory chambers, or chambers cut with off the shelf reamers and use custom dies made specifically for those chambers.


Then there are those who merely neck size and achieve great accuracy.

To which group does this question really apply?

Not sure I understand the question or the difference. When I consider the custom rifles I have it seems my custom rifles with special reamer are only tighter necks, rest of dimensions a the same and the neck is controlled by the bushing when I size so don't see the difference. What am I missing? I do understand statements about better accuracy with the full size die.