Full length size or neck size

[SheepDog]

Not disagreeing with you, but more comes into it than that. Back to my post a bit...brass life is relative to how hot it's loaded and the support around the case. For example..222's used to be popular in BR, and got good brass life with quality brass and sizing techniques. But, typical loading pressures were less than is typical in BR cartridges of today and there's more barrel support around a smaller diameter case. Neck sizing only, was popular with this cartridge in it's hay day. FWIW.

There's more too getting 50 firings from a piece of brass than just buying Lapua. Pressure always matters, as does how much the brass is worked. Agreed..neck sizing only, does work the brass less..but if all it ever did was expand to static chamber dimensions then spring back...it'd never get tight anywhere. In reality, we know that's not the case.

But, barrels expand upon firing and the brass follows suit. In fact, that's exactly how a Pressure Trace system works. It uses strain gauges that measure barrel stretch and converts it to current and then to a graph you can see on a computer. You can literally see primer ignition and muzzle pressures, which are of course much, much lower than peak pressures. Without some shrinkage of the brass from it's maximum expansion, eventually, it will get tight. Remember this...a 1.000" peg does not fit a 1.000" hole...they are the SAME. There must be clearance for a given peg to freely fit into a given hole.

That's why I full length size...minimally.

I agree with everything you say. It has been my experience that if a round expands a chamber enough that the brass cannot spring back there is excessive pressure involved for that gun and that load or the brass was too soft for whatever reason.
Now I have to back up a little here and remind folks that this is my experience - one man's experience - someone else may have different experience. There are a lot of different things that can contribute to what happen when you pull the trigger. If I was to get a sticky case I would full length size the brass and drop the load a bit and then go back to neck sizing. That has never happened to me in over thirty five years (I have been loading for 48 years so I made a few mistakes in the first few years). When I say what I say it deals only with the way I reload for my guns and you may have a different experience. The goal is to give you alternatives that you can try while remaining safe. If you get excessive case growth when neck sizing the try partial full sizing - sort of half sizing with a full size die. Reloading is about trying new things safely to see if they work for you.
Every gun is different and every reloader is an individual. If you try something and it causes problems then don't use it go on to something else.

 

[LHSmith]

The goal is to give you alternatives that you can try while remaining safe. If you get excessive case growth when neck sizing the try partial full sizing - sort of half sizing with a full size die. Reloading is about trying new things safely to see if they work for you.

Sometimes I believe that author's of the abc's of reloading as found in the beginning pages of reloading manuals need to bring their methods into the 21st century. "Partial FL resizing" creates more problems for the reloader than it solves. It causes the shoulder to bulge (albeit slightly) and to move forward slightly which usually creates interference when trying to close the bolt increasing the risk of lug wear , upsetting the rest set-up when shooting from a bench, and creating cartridges with random dimensions (bulging brass is never symetrical) which compromises the presentation of the bullet -to- bore alignment which is not conducive to accuracy. And the theory behind it was to prevent overworking the brass? How does that work when you are distorting the case beyond it's designed shape by bulging the body/shoulder junction? How does one expect to maintain case concentricity with this distortion? I want the brass to be sized to consistent dimensions -EVERY TIME. Accuracy is all about minimizing as many variables as possible......and FLS to a consistent HS dimension is simple and easy by selecting a FL die that closely matches your chamber and using die shims to tweak those cases that refused the initial bump setting.

 

[LHSmith]

To continue my rant, reloading die manufacturers continue to perpetuate the myth that NS cases nets longer brass life and better accuracy in their advertising. While it may be true in some chamber/ die combinations....it certainly is not the majority and IME with all the rifles I have ever loaded for in was NEVER true. But it does help with die sales.....the consumer sees the advertising hype and first orders only a NS die....only to discover that an extra die, FLS or bump die, is necessary to allow the cases to function in their rifles again.
The problem is it is counter-intuitive to the average reloader, but after my experiences in 15 years of competitive BR and reading this forum during that time, I am convinced that FL sizing every time will net longer brass life and greater accuracy even with the average factory hunting gun. The trick is to find the production FL sizer that best fits your chamber, and annealing when the brass starts to fight sizing.
Having said all of that, when I begin having issues with accuracy and my troubleshooting has left me wondering.....new brass cures many ills. Accept the fact that brass is expendable if your goal is maximum accuracy with trouble free function.....which was especially hard for me to accept as a Pennsylvania Dutchman ----we are extremely frugal (cheap).

 

[dkhunt14]

Very nicely said Lamar. Then there is the fact that once brass gets so many firings on it they seem to lose accuracy. I always like new brass and have shot some of my smallest 1000 yard groups with it. Matt

 

[Patch700]

To put it short , when I started looking at the rifle and rest setup as a tuning fork it changed my results... For the better.

I do not want my cases to react in such a way that when everything goes bang the tuning fork is being muffled, not unlike a tuning fork that has been struck but yet has a hand gripping it so as to dull the ring lol.

To each their own.

 

[USMCDOC]

You do not have much of an accuracy requirement compared to many using their rifles for target competition.

I will beg to differ on that one.. Accuracy is to the greatest capability of a rifle, no matter what it is being used for is best, fore it will help reduce the Area of Wabble! AoW.. which translates to: AoW, if my rifle wasn't just hitting the broad side of a barn, i might of that that one!

 

[mikecr]

I am convinced that FL sizing every time will net longer brass life

It cannot. Think about it. Sizing(up or down) will not extend life over no sizing.

Consistent brass life is a matter of minimal change maintained over time. Absolute brass life, with competitive pressures, is normally a matter of primer pocket life. We know that dimensional changes of brass due to yielding -changes brass(it's grain structure/spring back). And we know that FL sizing will not recover primer pockets. In fact, FL sizing recovers nothing, because each cycle of it causes yielding/change in brass. Whether affecting you as a FL sizer, or not, is irrelevant to truths in this. It affects some reloaders, which shouldn't be dismissed.

On the flip side, NS only doesn't work without a plan to do just that. The cartridge needs to be of improved design. The action/chamber/barrel need to support intended pressure per area. The clearances need to mitigate excess yielding to form. Where excess yielding occurs, even once, forget NS only. Your plan wasn't good enough. And where you didn't meet any one of the three conditions here, your plan will fail.
Does it hurt results to run with such a plan?

I don't feel like it 'hurts' anything, and it's easy. I could assemble an improved & fitted 6br(for example) and shoot through barrel after barrel with the same brass, that never touched a sizing die (FL or NS), with pockets remaining in new condition. Given a magnum diameter tenon and coned breech, I could do this at pressures anybody here would consider stiff. I could turn a neck shelf to provide desired CBTO with hand seating of bullets, at light enough force, and remove ALL dies from the reloading plan.
I hand decap & prime already,, hard to get easier.
But again, does it hurt results to run with such a plan?

I'm sure the answer could not be predicted. That it would have to be tried & tested.
We could say FL sized shoots differently than NS'd, but logically, different could be better or worse or equivalent. Different pressure curve, and sized grain structure change that could affect even that. Different load developed. Add everything else & no prediction is possible.
So I don't dismiss those seeking to NS only as lost or delusional. Same with those FL sizing.