Question for the more experienced loaders and serious shooters.

[Nimbus73]

This is just an off the wall question about things one can do to eliminate variables while determining accuracy during load development. While watching some Winning in the Wind YouTube videos last night as well as a few others, something popped into my head.

Do any of you experienced reloaders that shoot a lot, but mainly for fun or hunting, turn down the trigger weight while testing loads to maybe rule out one more variable, and then turn them back for normal use? The competition shooters probably already have ounce weight triggers or pulls less than 2 pounds but I'm not on that level or anywhere close. I shoot hunting rifles and all of my firearms but one register 3- 3 1/2 pounds of pull and it is just a taint under 3 but it can go down to 1 1/2 if I want.

While watching Winning In The Wind and seeing some of his groups in the .15-.3" range I got to wondering just how little of a trigger pull he has shooting those tiny tiny groups from his heavy custom guns on a high tech front rest.

I'm just a freshman loader with 40 years of country boy shooting experience with off the shelve rifles. As I've aged, I like to think the quality of my gun purchases has improved, but in the end they are all production rifles, not custom builds.

My gut tells me to leave them like they are because I'm used to them, but curiosity says what if it improves group size significantly. I haven't read about or seen the first person mention it, but I also know that trigger pull and grouping is a real thing.

What is y'all's opinions?

 

[Homerange]

Under 2.5lbs is your target for any serious work.
A little over 2lbs is still okay for field work but offhand can be a little challenging.

Lighter again can be troublesome for field shooting without a good rest.

 

[SecondsCount]

The weight of the gun and the rigidity of your rest, bags, or bipod can be a factor.

You always need to consider wind as well.

 

[Mark611]

Agreed, there are a lot of things to consider, JMO, I like to start off with a rifle I know I have done all I can do to help my accuracy to start, a blue printed action a good barrel, solid ridged stock set up good glass and scope mounting set up, and yes, I'm a trigger snob! so, the lighter the better! IMO, I usually run a 2-stage match type trigger! Triggers help, but you got to put the rest of the puzzle together to get really good accuracy! JMO

 

[dryhumor]

I hunt and load develop with the trigger set where I want it. Most are 8 oz, some are two stage 8-12 oz. All are under 2 lbs. Most times, I use the scope that will remain on the rifle, though on occasion I have a 20x scope I’ve had for years, that’s been on at least 20 rifles for load development.

ETA: My experience is a lighter trigger works for me. YMMV

 

[BoydAllen]

All but one of the rifles that I regularly shoot are compatible with Remington triggers. For those that do not have a Jewel HVR trigger, I can change a field trigger to one of my spare benchrest triggers for load work. IMO having a light trigger is a big advantage for range work. One thing that I would caution against is setting a trigger lighter than its design allows for safe operation. I require all trigger adjustments to be able to stand very rough handling, thump the butt on the floor, slap the comb hard, close the bolt hard and fast. If you have to be careful about how you handle a rifle after a trigger adjustment, you need to fix the safety hazard that you have created, before firing the rifle.

 

[Doom]

Do any of you experienced reloaders that shoot a lot, but mainly for fun or hunting, turn down the trigger weight while testing loads to maybe rule out one more variable, and then turn them back for normal use?

When you dig into looking at dispersion of the shots in load development, reducing the pull weight should reduce the dispersion, which is the shot to shot variation in point of impact on target so in general it would reduce the group size and increase the likelyhood of picking the correct load for a given number of shots fired. It should not have an impact on the "correct load" as all the effects are due to the shooter/rifle interface. However, there are other shooter/rifle interface issues that come into play so the degree to which reducing pull weight will reduce dispersion is gong to vary from one person to another. Another benefit of reducing the pull weight as @BoydAllen describes is that by reducing the effect of shooter/rifle induced dispersion it gives a better indication of what the rifle itself is capable of producing.

I personally do not change my trigger settings for load development. But remember that group size is not the only factor that plays into load development, depending on the chosen method.

 

[dgeesaman]

This is just an off the wall question about things one can do to eliminate variables while determining accuracy during load development. While watching some Winning in the Wind YouTube videos last night as well as a few others, something popped into my head.

Do any of you experienced reloaders that shoot a lot, but mainly for fun or hunting, turn down the trigger weight while testing loads to maybe rule out one more variable, and then turn them back for normal use? The competition shooters probably already have ounce weight triggers or pulls less than 2 pounds but I'm not on that level or anywhere close. I shoot hunting rifles and all of my firearms but one register 3- 3 1/2 pounds of pull and it is just a taint under 3 but it can go down to 1 1/2 if I want.

While watching Winning In The Wind and seeing some of his groups in the .15-.3" range I got to wondering just how little of a trigger pull he has shooting those tiny tiny groups from his heavy custom guns on a high tech front rest.

I'm just a freshman loader with 40 years of country boy shooting experience with off the shelve rifles. As I've aged, I like to think the quality of my gun purchases has improved, but in the end they are all production rifles, not custom builds.

My gut tells me to leave them like they are because I'm used to them, but curiosity says what if it improves group size significantly. I haven't read about or seen the first person mention it, but I also know that trigger pull and grouping is a real thing.

What is y'all's opinions?

Trigger weight has to match the shooting technique, which has to match the rifle stock and rest. You can’t shoot a 7lb hunting rifle in free recoil.

I can definitely see reducing trigger weight might help with a bit more accuracy on the bench but taking a trigger down to be a few ounces of weight only helps if the gun can be fired using a similarly light hold.

So my opinion leans toward develop your load as you’ll use the gun. So that means using the trigger as it is. As a shooter this is your chance to familiarize yourself and develop an effective technique.

 

[jwv2001]

The only reason that you handload in the first place, not one of the reasons, the only reason is to produce consistent ammunition to make yourself a better shot. You will always be the biggest variable. Find a load and shoot it. Learn you and your rifle's capabilities. When you are convinced that you are shooting that load to the best it can be shot, then move on to adjust the load, one step at a time.
It's like learning to use a hammer. Same hammer, same nail. You're going to hit your thumb a few times, but when you get the hang of it you'll know.

 

[jelenko]

turn down the trigger weight while testing loads to maybe rule out one more variable, and then turn them back for normal use

Personally, I think that's a great idea for triggers that are normally set for more than 2lbs. As many have already mentioned, few if any do. Many competitors I know have trigger weights at 4.5lbs+ and develop loads that are 1/2 MOA or less.

As several others have mentioned, getting the rifle rested and secure has more impact.

 

[ShtrRdy]

There's a lot that has to happen the same in order to get 0.1s-0.3s sort of groups. In Winning in the Winds case his ability to have his rifle and ammunition work the same each time is excellent. As far as his trigger pull weight I think he uses a few ounces for his F-class rifle and 12 ounces for his PRS rifle.

To answer your question, a lighter trigger can help reduce group size.

 

[J.d. Popkes]

Someone is gonna tell you that you need wind flags in order to shoot

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

My hunting rifles have triggers set at 2# 12 oz. Most of my hunting is in temps below 40, winter of course is much colder. Below zero temps, really not practical to shoot without gloves. I wear Nomex flight gloves under insulated mittens. 2 3/4# for me is a good compromise between light(better target results) and still being able to feel the trigger with light gloves and COLD fingers.

 

[Webster]

All but one of the rifles that I regularly shoot are compatible with Remington triggers. For those that do not have a Jewel HVR trigger, I can change a field trigger to one of my spare benchrest triggers for load work. IMO having a light trigger is a big advantage for range work. One thing that I would caution against is setting a trigger lighter than its design allows for safe operation. I require all trigger adjustments to be able to stand very rough handling, thump the butt on the floor, slap the comb hard, close the bolt hard and fast. If you have to be careful about how you handle a rifle after a trigger adjustment, you need to fix the safety hazard that you have created, before firing the rifle.

I to worry about the safety factory wirh a light trigger. I wouldn't want to be constantly changing the pull. Most of the champion shooters say they dry fired their rifle thousands of times to improve trigge control. I hear world champions say I pulled that shot. I think they mean even at their level they don't pull the trigger the way they want and the shot goes out of the group. You don't want to dry fire a 22RF gun without a spent case in the chamber. The FP will dent the chamber.

When I am shooing off a bench it feels like no matter how hard I pull the gun doesn't go off. If I am aiming at a GH or deer I am totaly unaware of trigger pull. It's all a mental thing. Even with my bad trigger pull and not working on it I am happy with the small groups I shoot. Good enough to get the job done. Some guys will never be good shooters. You have to be very analytical about everything you do and constantly work to find things to correct. It isn't just the gun.

 

[Downeast]

I have a few "target" rifles that are set in ounces. One is set so light that the safety doesn't even work. No big deal because it is a single shot and shot off a bench one round at a time. Some actions don't even have safeties. I'm a firm believer that accuracy and precision go hand in hand with a "light" and crisp trigger. Nothing is worse than looking through a scope, lining up your shot and then having to "wait" for the gun to go off as you pull and pull for what seems like an eternity. That is when target shooting! For hunting you never think much about trigger weight. At least I don't. Good advise from @Webster above about triggers. It's your rifle, and you should know how it functions. My hunting rifles are set at 2-2.5 pounds. Most hunters never mess with their triggers and just shoot factory settings of anywhere from 3-4.5 pounds. Once in awhile someone wants to shoot my rifles and I tell them that all the triggers are set on the "light" side. Most have a surprised look on their face when things suddenly go bang.

 

[alby280]

No matter what weight you decide on just stay with it and practice dry firing at that weight be your friend in the end. Muscle memory is the trick with anything.

 

[CharlieNC]

Similarly, many prone shooters do load development on a bench rest.

 

[6.5 forever]

Trigger weight has to match the shooting technique, which has to match the rifle stock and rest. You can’t shoot a 7lb hunting rifle in free recoil.

I can definitely see reducing trigger weight might help with a bit more accuracy on the bench but taking a trigger down to be a few ounces of weight only helps if the gun can be fired using a similarly light hold.

So my opinion leans toward develop your load as you’ll use the gun. So that means using the trigger as it is. As a shooter this is your chance to familiarize yourself and develop an effective technique.

I agree. The load will not shoot any better than the way a rifle is set up.

 

[BoydAllen]

I to worry about the safety factory wirh a light trigger. I wouldn't want to be constantly changing the pull. Most of the champion shooters say they dry fired their rifle thousands of times to improve trigge control. I hear world champions say I pulled that shot. I think they mean even at their level they don't pull the trigger the way they want and the shot goes out of the group. You don't want to dry fire a 22RF gun without a spent case in the chamber. The FP will dent the chamber.

When I am shooing off a bench it feels like no matter how hard I pull the gun doesn't go off. If I am aiming at a GH or deer I am totaly unaware of trigger pull. It's all a mental thing. Even with my bad trigger pull and not working on it I am happy with the small groups I shoot. Good enough to get the job done. Some guys will never be good shooters. You have to be very analytical about everything you do and constantly work to find things to correct. It isn't just the gun.

Have you ever tried what I described? Are you speaking from experience?

 

[K22]

The first question I would ask is your shooting discipline. The second question is the accuracy needed for success in that discipline. You may want to watch the short video by Ryan Cleckner, a special operations sniper, on "Acceptable Accuracy."

I consider myself a precision shooter but not a bench shooter even though I conduct all my load development off the bench. My discipline is practical field shooting which means shooting off cross sticks. I do not strictly focus of groups, I also focus on consistent POI, especially clean and cold barrel shots. Both group size and consistent POI are critically important, but I strike a balance between the two.

All the triggers on my rifles are set to the same approximate weight, about 2 1/2 to 3 lbs. for the simple reason of consistency and muscle memory. I do not want to have to "learn" a new trigger pull each time I change rifles or move from load testing to field work. One of the things I learned in 30+ years of competitive pistol shooting is that consistency is one of the keys to good performance.

Also, safety is always my first priority. This is why I never jam bullets into the lands, set the triggers below 2 1/2 lbs., never push the pressure envelope in loading.

Furthermore, I do not spend endless hours and components chasing a few .1's reduction in group size. Once of have an acceptable consistent accuracy load, I move off the bench and never return unless there is a problem that needs diagnosis.

After many years of shooting and hunting, I have learned, at least for me, that I am the largest variable. Therefore, if I can continually improve my technique, master the fundamentals of field marksmanship, and develop the mental toughness / focus needed for accurate field shooting then this pays much higher dividends then constantly tinkering with equipment and loads.