Question for JB on Ultrasonic

[Caduceus]

Jason,

I enjoyed your article. It's great to see people experimenting and writing up their results to share with others. I've a couple of questions to prompt further discussion:

1. Now that you've worked out what you like, are you still using the beakers or are you using the entire tank for each cycle?

2. How many cases can you fit in the beakers/tank per cycle?

3. What is the life of the solution before it needs to be replenished?

And on a bit of a tangent:

I'm not sure what you really mean about build-up of residue from tumbling - do you mean stuff gets stuck inside the cases or did you notice some other problem? The dust on the outside just wipes off. I could understand if you didn't like tumbling because you thought it would ding up the case necks.

 

[jb1000br]

--Yes, still using the beakers at this time, but may try a tankful.

beakers make it easier to wash the junk out without handling individual cases. rinse a dump a few times holding your hand over the top to keep the cases in. also keeps them standing vertical so the crud falls out.


--depends on beaker size

250mL = 19-6.5-284's but i lay #20 on top of the 19 standing up.
308 - 21/beaker all standing

My aim with this was mainly to come up with a good solution/protocol, you can adjust the actual execution anyway you want, some ways will just be more work,like using the whole tank instead of beakers.

The BC solution used as it is in the 2nd protocol lasts forever, just pour it back and reuse. Because it is only used to shine, not break up the carbon.

The initial vinegar goes down the drain because it is VERY black and nasty. You could PROBABLY reuse it, but at about $.18/beaker ful, it goes down the drain.

Re: tumbler residue:
--dust is INSIDE as well

--some walnut as well as the rice left tar like deposits in the shoulder area of some 25-06 cases once. most likely due to overused media...but a tumbler takes longer and you still have dirty insides and primer pockets...



Donovan,

Im sure if you google it you can find a bunch, just maybe not as cheap. Will look into some other suppliers at some point.

Harbor Freight has at least 2 models



Hoppes and boiling water...I'm not real interested. Hoppes once made me pretty sick when i spilled some and smelled it long enough to clean it up, so i'm not interested in a tank ful of it followed my boiling water...

also, i cant burn myself with what im doing...

I though about trying GM TEC as well...but there again the smell may be too much in that quantity.

The thing is, they both eat copper more than the diluted vinegar, so using them on brass probably isnt a real good idea.

The vinegar will be tough to beat for price and user-friendliness.



JB

 

[PNUC]

JB,

Another "thanks" for your efforts. I am giving ultrasonic cleaning a try.

I have a question: I use a sizing/decapping die. Obviously you want to decap before cleaning. Why not size then too? Then the cleaning steps will make sure the sizing lubricants are out of the picture too.

That's my plan anyway, shoot, wipe the brass, lube, decap/size, clean, reload, repeat. I'll let you know how it goes.

However it turns out, thanks for your generosity.

Cheers,
Jeff

 

[jb1000br]

Hi Jeff.

carbon buildup around the outside neck is not good for your dies.

as long as you clean the neck first, then size, then US you would be GTG

JB :thumb:

 

[kitsap]

Sources for cleaners. . .

L & R makes a full line of ultrasonic cleaners including some specialized for weapons cleaning. Their home page is L & R. They sell through distributers one is Wescott Company. The cleaners are a necessary tool of many dental labs. There are lots of dental lab supply sources on the web. A couple of Google searches will provide numerous results.

 

[Shelley]

Jason

Is there any reason that a zip lock bag wouldn't work for the shell holder? It'd be disposable along with the dirty cleaner solution. The drawback would be that the cases wouldn't be mouth upwards.

By the way.... neat project!!

Shelley

 

[Mark Walker in TX]

Sources for cleaners. . .

L & R makes a full line of ultrasonic cleaners including some specialized for weapons cleaning. Their home page is L & R. They sell through distributers one is Wescott Company. The cleaners are a necessary tool of many dental labs. There are lots of dental lab supply sources on the web. A couple of Google searches will provide numerous results.

One of their products is a non-ammoniated Ultrasonic Cartridge Case cleaner - specifically designed to clean brass cases.

"Ultrasonic Cartridge Case Cleaner
Economically, thoroughly and effectively clean shell casings for reloading. Maximizes the removal of carbonaceous materials and residue. Non-ammoniated,ammoniated products can cause brass to become brittle), concentrated, economical. Environmentally friendly and biodegradable."

I sent them an email requesting pricing and information. I will post as soon as I hear from them, if somebody does not beat me to it...

This sounds very promising!!!

 

[jb1000br]

Shelley -- dont see why not...but you can get beakers from scientific supply places if you wish,like the ones mentioned below)

Donovan -- yea, i knew what you meant, the boiling hoppes i was referring to was the remnants left in the case after a US run in it.

Also, i know where you can get some large expensive US units,fisher scientific, VWR etc.) I was referring to the smaller affordable units.

walker -- i'll bet it isnt as cheap as the vinegar Keep us updated though!

JB

 

[Longshot]

Well sir, the USPS guy had my new ultrasonic cleaner thingy,I got the exact same one described in Jason's article) waiting for me when I got home today. So even before getting out of my work clothes, I mixed up a batch of the vinegar and baking soda solutions, dumped a bunch of very dirty 6.5-284 cases into a one of those re-usable Glad plastic containers, and fired that puppy up. The results were exactly as advertized!!

I skipped the distilled water run because my tap water has a pretty low dKH, but otherwise followed the "Clean & Cheap" regimen as closely as possible. After all was said and done, I did feel the need to give the necks one quick swipe with some fine steel wool, and swabbing the residual moisture out the primer pockets with a Q-tip was needed to get the very last of the crud out. But even with that, the whole process took less time than the usual tubler run, and at the end, there was no scattered media, clouds of dust, or need to do any further processing. Period.

Sweeeet!!!

Thanx Jason

 

[jb1000br]

LS -- good to hear!!

plastic may have attenuated the power a bit, cause i have not had ANYTHING left after using glass. Didnt have to touch ANYTHING, just size and prime

If you have to use the plastic, maybe try adding a 480 cycle to the vinegar step.

JB

 

[Longshot]

I guess it's possible the plastic itself may have interfered with transmission of the ultrasonic somewhat, but the shape of the container may have been the culprit as well. The bottom of these "Glad" plastic containers is concaved in such a way that air can get trapped underneath the container when it is set into the water bath.

I thought I'd done a good job of purging this air pocket, but with a load of cases on board, I really didn't have a good view of the area in question.

Anyway, I do have access to some flat bottomed glass containers that are about the right size. 'Course that means I'll have to go out any dirty up some more cases, for testing purposes only ....

Regards,
Bert

 

[marfu]

I got mine yesterday. The 'basket' yesterday seems to seriously limit the effectiveness.

I'm also trying citric acid, should work in theory - I used to use it before I had a case tumbler, though it was a long time ago so I don't remember how effective it was. It is conveniently available in powder form - try ebay... Worth another side by side test - JB?

In any case,pardon the pun) it's far more effective than a tumbler!

 

[jb1000br]

Let me know how the citric acid works out. I'm done testing for a little bit

JB

 

[Longshot]

JB,

Well sir, glass is definitely the prefered material!! Like I said, I don't have any beakers lying around, but I do have a couple empty peanut butter jars that are about the same dimensions as a 150ml beaker. And I did find a "supply" of truly filthy old 6-284 brass on hand. So, I set about another run using those materials and the same regimen as last night.

Let me cut to the chase. The primer pockets, and everything else, came out immaculate. No need at all for any supplemental wiping or swabbing. Guess who just ordered a set of glass beakers? :thumb:

- Bert

 

[marfu]

I had another idea: clean your bore brushes in a similar manner...

When I've finished with my bore brushes I put them in a jar of white spirit,no idea what it is called in the US, same thing?), basically to wash the bore cleaner off or else they get eaten away. So why not just put the jar in the ultrasonic cleaner for a few minutes, can't be a bad thing to get the crap off...

 

[jb1000br]

JB,

Well sir, glass is definitely the prefered material!! Like I said, I don't have any beakers lying around, but I do have a couple empty peanut butter jars that are about the same dimensions as a 150ml beaker. And I did find a "supply" of truly filthy old 6-284 brass on hand. So, I set about another run using those materials and the same regimen as last night.

Let me cut to the chase. The primer pockets, and everything else, came out immaculate. No need at all for any supplemental wiping or swabbing. Guess who just ordered a set of glass beakers? :thumb:

- Bert

Bert...love to hear posts like that! glad it worked out

Marfu -- good idea...ijust usually spray them with 70% isopropyl alcohol though.

Bert -- what was your minumum purchase on the beakers? I could use a couple if you are stuck with a few extras...

JB

 

[Longshot]

JB,

I ordered the beakers from a place called Idigo Instruments,www.indigo.com) in Waterloo, Ontario. There was no minimum as far as I can tell. I got 4 just to have a couple spares, and I got the 400ml size since I can process more cases in each and still fit 2 of them in the cavity at a time.

- Bert

 

[jb1000br]

Bert -- good deal. let me know how many cases,BR/308/243) you can fit in each beaker standing upright...i have only used the 250 and 600ml beakers.

Take care,
Jason

 

[kory]

Jason,

Great job on the article. One question, though, with the "Clean and Cheap" protocol: is the BS added to the vineger and water solution or do you drain it and use regualr,tap?) water? I suspect adding BS to the vineger solution will cause it to fizzle.

Regards,
Kory

 

[jb1000br]

Kory, try it and find out

No, just add the BS to hot tap water Not only would it fizzle if you added it to vinegar, is would neutralize it and get you nowhere...

JB :thumb: