Question for all you f class guys.

[DBailey]

Okay, I'll be one of the oddballs.

I do not like the distraction of picking the brass out of my rifle after every shot.
I have 4 F-Class rifles. My main 2 rifles have ejectors my 2 spares do not.
Give me a rifle with no ejector and I'll show you my new spare rifle.
If your neck tension is so light that your bullets get pushed around easily when pulling a loaded round, the Panda F-Class action with Kelbly's TG mechanical ejector will end the problem.

 

[Minesweeper3433]

I have my ejector springs trimmed down so that I can install the ejector and spring into the bolt face with just finger pressure. A loaded round won't eject but my brass falls out of the action right next to the rifle were I set my box.

 

[WindSurgeon]

Ryan:

You build these rifles. How many do you build where the customer specs an ejector in an F class rifle? Just curious.

I do not have an ejector in my F open rifle.

 

[ARIZONA_F_CLASS]

Spring is cut down so it just drops out side of the rifle.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

I do not have an ejector in my F-TR rifle. I can pick out the fired case and place it in the MTM box and get the next round very quickly if need be. I spend a lot of time prepping my cases and I do not want them hitting the dirt/mud/grass/concrete/what have you.

 

[Ringostar]

I have ejectors in all my rifles. If you try to stay in position with limited movement, then how are you opening your bolt so hard to cause neck damage? I even watch a very well known shooter and ballistics expert try FTR last year. He was using an ejector, with an open range bag setting next to the rifle. With each shot fired, the empty landed directly into the bag. He even won FTR class grand agg for a 4 day match, on his first time shooting FTR.

 

[Medic505]

Give me an ejector please!! With a right bolt/Left Port, you can eject the brass into your left hand. Spring is snipped so the case will fall into the MTM if I'm trying to stay with a condition.

 

[Scott Harris]

Spring is cut down so it just drops out side of the rifle.

+1
No damage is done to the brass, allows faster loading.

 

[expiper]

I am following this thread with interest,,,,it shows (to me ) the need for competitors from all displens of shooting to share methods of shooting/loading/gunsmithing/etc. and to be aware of what others are doing,,,F-class and long range benchrest shooters by and large have never shot in or even observed a typical 100-200 yd organized (NBRSA-IBS-or Super Shoot ) event of National proportion,,,,some realize the benefit of modern custom actions (Kelbly-BAT-etc) but dont know how the use and non use of ejectors has evolved over time,,,back in the 50's-70's before custom actions were common and mass produced (also before PPC and Rem BR) the brass was of so poor quality that neck turning to "thin" dims. was necessary and most actions were 721/722's the shooters would remove or cripple the ejector or the spring to prevent damage of the case necks...today most successful shooters use an ejector (not only for speed to run the shots) but so that they never have to think about the spent round and are able to concentrate on the conditions and shooting the group or score,,,,I noticed some saying they dont want to throw/eject their ctgs "over the hill" or out in the mud and rocks ( we are not talking tactical events here ) I see most F-class (FT-R-etc) using a pad or shooting mat which gives a clean repeatable surface to lay on and shoot from,,,this mat will catch/stop/protect from damage all spent rounds,,,the modern benchrest action which most competitors use (even souped up Rems ) has an ejector that is or can be made to gently eject the spent round a few inches from the rifle and onto an arear beside the shooter the size of a ball cap,,,,these rifles are not M-1's or M-16's but "belly benchrest" rifles that have evolved to this state of the art ,,,,I see no need to retrofit or evolve backwards with our equipment,,,if "B"enchrest shooters can toss the dainty little PPC cases out of their guns with out damage or difficulty why do you think F-class guns will damage .284/.280/30 cal Mags,,,,I know some shooter want to twiddle and fiddle with every round and look em over before putting them in the box,,,but there are more important things to look for while the target is in place and the clock is ticking and the wind is blowing,,,,,Roger

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

This thread is about F-class; I'm not clear why people bring up other shooting disciplines in discussing the pros and cons of ejectors.

My very first F-TR rifle was a highly modified AR-15 rifle and it still use it when I shoot 300 yard F-class. I put my big rifle case along my right side with the top open and it catches all my brass. Since I have a through the triggerguard bolt release device and I use a totally reliable Bobsled, I can fire as fast as the target puller can maneuver the smaller target and as quickly as my scorer can call out the score. I load the cartridge with my right hand, the same one that pulls the trigger. I can even go 20 rounds without breaking cheekweld.

My next F-TR rifle was built on a Ruger action mated to a superb Broughton barrel. I could eject the case and catch it in my right hand in one fluid motion and put the case away in the box, get the next one and keep my left hand on the rear bag. I did that for years.

When I finally broke down and built my current rifle, I speced the Panda action, right hand, right port with no ejector and the trigger with no safety. The brass coming out automatically from my AR is H.O.T, very hot. I have had some interesting imprints of cases under my forearms. On the other hand, as we all know, the brass coming out of a bolt action is, well not cold, but it's not hot. The heat all went into the barrel.

It didn't take me long to find a proper sequence with my latest rifle. This was also during the time before I got my Joy-pod. My left arm and hand would stay under me and on the rear bag and with my right hand I would open the bolt, pluck the fired case from the boltface and put the case in the box and get the next round. Within a few shots, I was able to do that without looking at the port in the action. Over time I evolved the procedure to the point where after the shot has been fired, I stay on the scope to confirm that the target has gone down while looking at conditions with my other eye and lifting the bolt with the back of my thumb to try to reduce a little the heat transfer. When the target is going down, or I'm screaming for a mark, my right hand is pulling out the bolt and getting the case put while I am scanning the conditions. I don't have to worry about where the case landed and if it's going to roll somewhere and get in the way; it's safely in the box.

By the time my target comes back up the next round is already in the port and I'm still scanning conditions. My scorer will call out the shot value and I'm still in my spotting scope or looking at flags. In tricky conditions, if the value called out by the scorer is not what I expected, I'll take a peek to see where the shot impacted. If it's a 10 or X, I only factor that in at the last moment when I have decided the conditions are what I want.

I favor no ejector because everything is under my control and I can spend my time looking at the conditions before and after the shot and not worry about my cases.

There really is no right or wrong answer here. So, most everyone uses an ejector and has to tune it and work with bags and so on, that's all fine. I've always been an iconoclast and evolve methods that work for me. I've never run out of time, in fact under good conditions, I am usually among the first to finish and sometimes even under bad conditions. There have been occasions where I took more time, but it had nothing to do with removing a case from the boltface.

 

[rpierce]

Windsurgeon: While I don't build a ton of fclass rifles most of the ones I do build have them. A lot of them are on Rem clones due to the stiller only being a 100 bucks more than a souped up Remington. I am kind of glad 95% of my rifle builds are hunting rifles as I don't have near the amount of time in them as an fclass rifle that needs the ports and bolt handle inletted and then sanded, clear coated etc. For the most part I just do the fclass rifles for friends.

 

[6BRinNZ]

I'm curious why you asked the question - off topic - I have always been interested in why right handers go for a right bolt right port...disturbing the trigger hand while competing in F-class always struck me as odd....

 

[rpierce]

I have some friends coming out with a new action and they wanted to get some peoples opinion on what they prefer for fclass before they crank out a bunch for the "F-class" model. The manufacture is Curtis Custom. Joel Russo ,the stock maker,is a partner with Curtis Custom on this action. They have came up with a rem 700 footprint action that has a 3 lug bolt with integral rail and integral lug. There will be right bolt left port single shot for the f-class model along with the standard right bolt right port single shot. They also have standard bdl repeaters along with AW repeaters. They have designed their own bottom metal as well that will be compatible with AI mags. They have a 3 round AI style mag that will sit flush with the bottom metal. This will be great for the hunting crowd as you won't have a mag sticking out the bottom of the stock. Also they are coming out with a lapua and cheytac version as well. The lapua will have a 4"+ detachable mag system available for it also. There is a thread on it at longrangehunting.com along with some pics of it. Very sharp looking and high quality action that will be coming out very shortly.

 

[Scott Harris]

3 round AI mag sounds great.

 

[WindSurgeon]

Windsurgeon: While I don't build a ton of fclass rifles most of the ones I do build have them. A lot of them are on Rem clones due to the stiller only being a 100 bucks more than a souped up Remington. I am kind of glad 95% of my rifle builds are hunting rifles as I don't have near the amount of time in them as an fclass rifle that needs the ports and bolt handle inletted and then sanded, clear coated etc. For the most part I just do the fclass rifles for friends.

Thanks for the reply. From what I see, unless someone is using their hunting rifle, there is no ejector. Given we have to wait after each shot for the target to be pulled and sent back up, there is not much need for one. This is in contrast to benchrest for group where they try to get all shots downrange in the same wind condition. For me, I would not want the ejector. I put so much effort into prepping brass and reloading, I feel better pulling my brass and placing it back in the box safe from damage.

Bummed that you don't build F rifles for anyone other than your friends. I hear you build a great rifle and have a nice stock that you sell.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

I'm curious why you asked the question - off topic - I have always been interested in why right handers go for a right bolt right port...disturbing the trigger hand while competing in F-class always struck me as odd....

Let me see, I'm a right-handed shooter with right eye dominance. When I get down on my mat I lean on my left elbow, which minimizes the range of movement for my left hand. I can fiddle with the joystick on the Joy-Pod or squeeze the bag when using my Sinclair, but I just don't think I could reach up and cycle a bolt.

On the other hand (pun intended) I can manage the ammo, cycle the bolt, write down notes, (I've even scored for the other shooter on a two-point mound,) and since my right elbow is not supporting me, there is no tension in my right hand when I pull the trigger. Also, and this is a pretty important point, I only hold the rifle in my right hand when I'm about to shoot and my finger gets in the trigger guard about 1 second before I fire and it comes out soon after as I open the bolt pushing it up with my thumb.

I have seen some shooters with left port, left bolt but shooting right handed. The right hand stays on the rifle all the time and the finger is invariably in the trigger guard and on the trigger itself as they fumble with the bolt and ammo and so on. Yuck. Talk about developing a bad habit.

 

[dcali]

I'm curious why you asked the question - off topic - I have always been interested in why right handers go for a right bolt right port...disturbing the trigger hand while competing in F-class always struck me as odd....

The most important reason is that I don't want my face on the same side of the rifle as the ejection port.

 

[6BRinNZ]

I'm curious why you asked the question - off topic - I have always been interested in why right handers go for a right bolt right port...disturbing the trigger hand while competing in F-class always struck me as odd....

Let me see, I'm a right-handed shooter with right eye dominance. When I get down on my mat I lean on my left elbow, which minimizes the range of movement for my left hand. I can fiddle with the joystick on the Joy-Pod or squeeze the bag when using my Sinclair, but I just don't think I could reach up and cycle a bolt.

On the other hand (pun intended) I can manage the ammo, cycle the bolt, write down notes, (I've even scored for the other shooter on a two-point mound,) and since my right elbow is not supporting me, there is no tension in my right hand when I pull the trigger. Also, and this is a pretty important point, I only hold the rifle in my right hand when I'm about to shoot and my finger gets in the trigger guard about 1 second before I fire and it comes out soon after as I open the bolt pushing it up with my thumb.

I have seen some shooters with left port, left bolt but shooting right handed. The right hand stays on the rifle all the time and the finger is invariably in the trigger guard and on the trigger itself as they fumble with the bolt and ammo and so on. Yuck. Talk about developing a bad habit.

Maybe - have you watched Derek Rodgers shoot....conversely plenty of rp rb shooters look pretty bad...

Damoncali - yeah good point - but I was wondering with action design if these concepts and the reasoning for them had ever been considered - small details relating to precision so maybe not worth worrying about?

Anyways off topic for OP.

 

[XTR]

No ejectors in either of my 308s. My 223 I found that the depth of the boltface made it impossible to pull the brass out with my finger, so it's got the ejector in with about 4 turns cut off of the spring.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

Anyways off topic for OP.

I forgot that you're one of them Kiwis for the Land of the Long White Cloud, aren't you? You're used to shooting on the wrong side, since you drive on the wrong side of the road to begin with.