Question about Model 7 extraction
- Thread starter Boyd L.
- Start date
One would assume that, yes, given that the receivers are nearly exactly the same design from the bridge backwards, the Remington 7 would theoretically have the same issues getting a casing out of the bar'l as the 700.
Theory is one thing, practice is another.
I will add that I've yet to see an issue getting properly-sized reloads OR factory ammunition to extract from either design. Maybe it happens, or maybe the internet makes more of it than it deserves, due to the spoiling effect of custom actions (which are, indeed, usually well-executed with regards to extraction timing).
-Nate
Theory is one thing, practice is another.
I will add that I've yet to see an issue getting properly-sized reloads OR factory ammunition to extract from either design. Maybe it happens, or maybe the internet makes more of it than it deserves, due to the spoiling effect of custom actions (which are, indeed, usually well-executed with regards to extraction timing).
-Nate
Last edited:
Perhaps you could please elaborate on "recent vintage" ?????
I have owned and worked on 700's and Model Seven's all my adult life {more 700's}. As above, the design is the same. When you compare them to more complicated extraction setups of many other brands the 700/Seven seems like it could be too simple.
I don't believe it is and have never experienced any trouble with it. I have for sure seen a few 700's with poor bolt timing and I don't like it even though the ones I have seen still worked okay, they just weren't timed dead on balls perfect.
The little extractor seems small cheap and cheesy, but again, it works. I have installed many substitutes, the Sako style being the most requested. It works fine too and just like the M-16 style it has one advantage. The advantage is that if you get a case or round really stuck bad in the chamber with the factory one and you remove it by forcing the bolt....either the rim of the case or the factory extractor must give way and break, whereas the Sako/M16 types can if forced simply hop over the rim and let go. I get that you are not supposed to force it, but it happens. On a hunt or in the field there just isn't always a cleaning rod to try and tap it out.
That is the only advantage {if you can call it that} or issue I am aware of and when thinking about this one has to consider that the U.S. Army and Marines have not chosen to change or alter the factory extractor thus far.
Bottomline...it works, yeah, it's small...yeah, it's simple and seems cheesy...but you cant argue with the fact that it works and does what it is supposed to do. Any extractor can be subject to failure.
Long before I would ever change the style of extractor or worry about optimum perfect dead on bolt timing {cam to receiver} I would bush the bolt and have the firing pin captive.
I have owned and worked on 700's and Model Seven's all my adult life {more 700's}. As above, the design is the same. When you compare them to more complicated extraction setups of many other brands the 700/Seven seems like it could be too simple.
I don't believe it is and have never experienced any trouble with it. I have for sure seen a few 700's with poor bolt timing and I don't like it even though the ones I have seen still worked okay, they just weren't timed dead on balls perfect.
The little extractor seems small cheap and cheesy, but again, it works. I have installed many substitutes, the Sako style being the most requested. It works fine too and just like the M-16 style it has one advantage. The advantage is that if you get a case or round really stuck bad in the chamber with the factory one and you remove it by forcing the bolt....either the rim of the case or the factory extractor must give way and break, whereas the Sako/M16 types can if forced simply hop over the rim and let go. I get that you are not supposed to force it, but it happens. On a hunt or in the field there just isn't always a cleaning rod to try and tap it out.
That is the only advantage {if you can call it that} or issue I am aware of and when thinking about this one has to consider that the U.S. Army and Marines have not chosen to change or alter the factory extractor thus far.
Bottomline...it works, yeah, it's small...yeah, it's simple and seems cheesy...but you cant argue with the fact that it works and does what it is supposed to do. Any extractor can be subject to failure.
Long before I would ever change the style of extractor or worry about optimum perfect dead on bolt timing {cam to receiver} I would bush the bolt and have the firing pin captive.
Last edited:
Boyd L.
Witty comment under development
Specifically RR-prefix serialized actions. An example (or two)...I have 2 RR actions that when acquired would not extract fired 6mmBR Lapua cases unless very mildly loaded. An examination of one of those two receivers indicated a gap of .037” between the root of the handle and the receiver bridge. I had that particular bolt handle repositioned and the results are fantastic. I don’t have any question about the extractor on any of my five actions. Their purchase and extraction has been flawless (my three “old” actions have significant camming force”).
If it wasn’t clear in my original post, does the Model 7 demonstrate this same characteristic (minimal cam force) to facilitate extraction.
Thanks for the replies.
Okay, I understand. My personal experience has been that the Model Seven's I have had "eyes on" were all good. That doesn't mean there are none that are out of time...I am pretty sure the same lunk heads are attaching all the bolt handles.
I just recently had two Model Sevens here, one I still have because I own it and both were just fine. Now, I am sure without a doubt that some genius will look at it and tell you it is not right. There are those that can find fault with anything you put before them. The thing about bolt timing is this...yes, there is one exact dead on spot where the bolt handle should be, no argument. But, the fact is that if it is a little off that exact dead on zero spot it will still work just fine and ripping the handle off and welding it back to zero happy spot wont make the rifle more accurate.
Do it if it makes you feel better, but all these rifles with supposedly"bad" or "improper" bolt timing are questionable as to whether or not they really need altering or attention. Not saying none of them do, I have had several I changed and you can probably guess by now if it didn't need it I wouldn't do it. .037", yeah you needed that corrected. Bottom line, optimum is always best, but in this case slightly less than optimum wont make the rifle shoot more accurate or better if it does extract. I have never had to correct timing on a Model Seven.
Boyd L.
Witty comment under development
Good to know. Thanks.
If I can ask, who is Dan Arnold? Where is he located? Dan Armstrong of Accu-Tig has done one for me recently and did a great job all the way around, so I have that source. However I like to be aware of all options.
I have several 700's and three Model 7's. I've never had an extraction or ejection issue with the 700's or 7's other than with a few rifles chambered in 223 Rem.
I'm not sure what is causing this since I full size all cases with a .001 to .002 shoulder bump. The extraction / ejection issues begin to appear after about 5 to 6 reloads depending on the rifle. There are no abnormal signs on spent cases either such as bulges, or excessive expansion, rough chamber indications, etc.
The rims on the 223 Rem cases are thin and tend to wear quicker than large rifle cases yet I never had a problem with my Tikka and Browning 223 Rems no matter how many times the cases have been reloaded. Also I have a 223 Rem 700 that I never had a problem with.
One Model 7 was particular bad, it wouldn't extract the cases except new cases. I had the rifle and my reloads inspected by an experience gunsmith. He saw nothing abnormal with the reloads. He replaced the extractor and while it helped a little it didn't completely solve the problem. Next he installed a Sako extractor system. The extraction problem disappeared but I still have intermittent ejection problems. I'm at a lost to explain this - the obvious source seems to be my reloads yet they work flawlessly in my Tikka, Brownings, and other Model 7 and 700.
I'm not sure what is causing this since I full size all cases with a .001 to .002 shoulder bump. The extraction / ejection issues begin to appear after about 5 to 6 reloads depending on the rifle. There are no abnormal signs on spent cases either such as bulges, or excessive expansion, rough chamber indications, etc.
The rims on the 223 Rem cases are thin and tend to wear quicker than large rifle cases yet I never had a problem with my Tikka and Browning 223 Rems no matter how many times the cases have been reloaded. Also I have a 223 Rem 700 that I never had a problem with.
One Model 7 was particular bad, it wouldn't extract the cases except new cases. I had the rifle and my reloads inspected by an experience gunsmith. He saw nothing abnormal with the reloads. He replaced the extractor and while it helped a little it didn't completely solve the problem. Next he installed a Sako extractor system. The extraction problem disappeared but I still have intermittent ejection problems. I'm at a lost to explain this - the obvious source seems to be my reloads yet they work flawlessly in my Tikka, Brownings, and other Model 7 and 700.
Correction, Dan Armstrong at Accu-tig.
Arnold is a guy that works over H&R M-12 triggers if my memory is correct.
Boyd L.
Witty comment under development
His work is impressive.
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
yes they are exactly the same. if you have issues with any Remington ever built from the 50's til today youll have the same issues with a model seven. you can get it fixed or go with it like everybody not on a forum does. most extraction issues with a 700 is from a rough chamber making the additional pull from the ramp necessary. get your barrel chambered by a reputable gunsmith and youll likely never have issues. it wont cam back as designed but wont be an issue
I don't think Dan at Accu-Tig wast amused when I sent him Postal MO with Dan Arnolds' name on it. Not the 1st time I scrambled this wrong . . . .
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.