Question About Harrell's Sizing Die

[michaelnel]

I just received a Harrell's sizing die in the mail. They picked out the right one based on the three fired 6mm BR cases I sent them.

I figure most of their customers are a lot smarter than I am, because there are no instructions and I am puzzling over the use of this die. I did try calling them, but they are closed for the day.

There is in the package:
1) threaded die body marked "B2"
2) threaded cap for die body
3) adjustable decapping rod with pin and adjuster nut
4) lock ring
5) brass - colored insert with milled inner surface that appears to sit on the case shoulder

It is this item #5 that puzzles me. It fits into the die in the location that I would expect a neck sizing bushing to go, but the ID where the neck goes through seems way too large to size my case necks, and it appears to be made out of brass which it seems would be too soft for neck sizing even if it did fit.

I can take one of my Redding bushings and drop it in there and they fit fine. I had understood that these H dies accept the Redding bushings, so that was what I expected to use to control neck sizing.

But what is this other not-quite-a-bushing thing? Is it an insert you can put in there instead of a bushing in case you just want to bump the shoulder without altering the neck?

Can someone please help me understand how to use this thing? My previous experience is with Redding Type S dies.

Thanks!
Michael

 

[Tim Singleton]

Re: Bonehead Question About Harrell's Sizing Die

They use standard neck bushings like the redding. They ship without any bushings

The brass piece is a shoulder bump gauge. It is machined to match the cartridge shoulder angle. Slip it on a fired case measure with calipers. Adjust die for desired amount of shoulder set back

 

[michaelnel]

Re: Bonehead Question About Harrell's Sizing Die

Very cool, thanks Tim! I do have the Stoney Point / Hornady headspace insert, but it's nice that Harrell's includes one with the die.

 

[Tim Singleton]

Re: Bonehead Question About Harrell's Sizing Die

I wondered the same thing the first die I bought from them.
Good luck with it

 

[michaelnel]

Re: Bonehead Question About Harrell's Sizing Die

It seems pretty much smaller than the Redding... at least when I take a case that has been sized in my Redding FL Type S die and try to insert it in the Harrell's (without the decapping rod and cap and bushing, just the body of the die), it stops with about 3/8" of the base of the case sticking out. That is with an unlubed case and only sticking it in there with light finger pressure, but still I am surprised the sized case won't go in.

I'm sure it will go in under the leverage of my Coax press and after having been lubed, but I thought one of the charms of these dies was the minimal resizing they do (better fitted to your chamber). Again, maybe I am missing something.

 

[Tim Singleton]

Re: Bonehead Question About Harrell's Sizing Die

They will exchange it at no cost if you find it is sizing to much. They try to match the fired pieces you send in with one of several sizes they keep on the shelf yours is a #2. They try to match one that will full length size a minimum amount but will chamber well after multiple firing.
The die will size the brass down at the .200 line. I think the idea is to have the brass sized enough so they extract well and the extraction doesn't upset the rifle in the bags to much. Bumping the shoulder only, just as in neck sizing only, will eventually lead to a tight case fit.
If you lock you calipers down at the shoulder junction on a fired brass and it slides down the body of the sized case more than a 1/4". You might send it back and ask for a #1
But I think you will be happy with it

 

[michaelnel]

Re: Bonehead Question About Harrell's Sizing Die

Since my post I did some research and found that the Harrell's #2 will resize the base area like a Redding small base die, but it will bump the shoulder less. This seems like a good thing to me. I will try sizing and chambering some cases later with it.

Thanks for your help!

 

[artbosco]

Re: Bonehead Question About Harrell's Sizing Die

They use standard neck bushings like the redding. They ship without any bushings

The brass piece is a shoulder bump gauge. It is machined to match the cartridge shoulder angle. Slip it on a fired case measure with calipers. Adjust die for desired amount of shoulder set back

The brass piece is not a gauge. As the picture points out it's only a collar. The caliper is the gauging tool.

 

[Tim Singleton]

Re: Bonehead Question About Harrell's Sizing Die

They use standard neck bushings like the redding. They ship without any bushings

The brass piece is a shoulder bump gauge. It is machined to match the cartridge shoulder angle. Slip it on a fired case measure with calipers. Adjust die for desired amount of shoulder set back

The brass piece is not a gauge. As the picture points out it's only a collar. The caliper is the gauging tool.

You should send Hornady a note informing them they have incorrectly named their tool as well
Thanks for the clarification

 

[Patch700]

Re: Bonehead Question About Harrell's Sizing Die

Out of curiosity were you not happy with the way the redding die was sizing your brass for that particular chamber? If so in what way?

 

[michaelnel]

Re: Bonehead Question About Harrell's Sizing Die

Out of curiosity were you not happy with the way the redding die was sizing your brass for that particular chamber? If so in what way?

Not because of any dissatisfaction with the Redding die. I had just heard that so many people prefer the results they get with the Harrell's die, and the theory of having a die that is tight to your chamber makes sense to me.

I believe the Redding dies are designed to produce SAAMI spec cases so they will work in any SAAMI spec chamber, and therefore they size the brass more than might be necessary for a particular chamber.

 

[CatShooter]

Re: Bonehead Question About Harrell's Sizing Die

Out of curiosity were you not happy with the way the redding die was sizing your brass for that particular chamber? If so in what way?

Not because of any dissatisfaction with the Redding die. I had just heard that so many people prefer the results they get with the Harrell's die, and the theory of having a die that is tight to your chamber makes sense to me.

I believe the Redding dies are designed to produce SAAMI spec cases so they will work in any SAAMI spec chamber, and therefore they size the brass more than might be necessary for a particular chamber.

Keep in mind that "SAAMI Spec" is not one number, it is a range of acceptable sizes - most "Over-The-Counter" die companies do a fairly good managing headspace (to minimum), but the body diameter can vary by 6 to 10 thou, depending on the cartridge.

Which is why OTC dies are so rough on the life of cases - unfortunately, "custom" dies are not available in most calibres, so you "make do" the best you can.

 

[Patch700]

Re: Bonehead Question About Harrell's Sizing Die

Do you know what your fire formed brass measures at the base along with the diameter just below the shoulder junction and then from base to datum line?

At that point what is you procedure to re-size your brass to a workable dimension using the redding die. As cat shooter has mentioned there is a wide variance in tolerances and that includes the chamber it is fired in.

I

 

[michaelnel]

Re: Bonehead Question About Harrell's Sizing Die

Do you know what your fire formed brass measures at the base

0.4705"

along with the diameter just below the shoulder junction

0.4610"

and then from base to datum line?

Not sure how to measure that, but measuring it with the adapter supplied by Harrell's, it's 1.5705"

At that point what is you procedure to re-size your brass to a workable dimension using the redding die.

What I had been doing was this:
1) decap

2) tumble with SS media

3) measure base to shoulder dimension with Hornady headspace adapter on my calipers

4) resize with the Redding FL Type S die with bushing. To do that, I used the Redding graduated shell holders, starting with the -0.010 one and working up until it bumped the shoulder back .002" from whatever I got in step 3

 

[Patch700]

Re: Bonehead Question About Harrell's Sizing Die

And at that point what we're your measurements for the diameter at the base and then below the shoulder and case junction once you got your desired bump.

 

[michaelnel]

Re: Bonehead Question About Harrell's Sizing Die

What are you getting at here? Why do you need all this data from me?

 

[CatShooter]

Re: Bonehead Question About Harrell's Sizing Die

What are you getting at here? Why do you need all this data from me?

The measurements are not important. Once you fire a case in a gun, it becomes a set of numbers al it's own, so whatever the numbers are, they no longer relate to any other thing.

 

[Patch700]

Re: Bonehead Question About Harrell's Sizing Die

Lol .. No worries... The reason I inquired about the post sizing dimensions was to help analyze whether your current die may have been over sizing the brass at either the base or the shoulder junction .

In example , if your base was being sized down .003" in order to get the desired bump at the datum line ... Or if the diameter at the shoulder and case junction was being sized too much.
Good luck with your sizing endeavour .