Question about a new Bat action

[JamesnTN]

Im looking at adding a new Bat M action to my HG. My Question is, is the melonited action actually worth the extra money spent over the SS action not that's not coated?

 

[Judd]

Listen to Alex, I just had an SV fixed and melonited. Bat took good care of me throughout.

 

[Jet]

+1 on what Alex said

 

[ridgeway]

You can always do the M in chromoly...

 

[JDMock]

Yes. Bats gall easy. Even in Br when we try and keep everything clean it can happen. Your running a string, and one tight case gets forced, thats all it takes sometimes. Nitride prevents this, as well as being able to run the bolt dry which lets you cycle a little quicker.

In my experience, BAT actions do not gall easily. The stainless ones are made of 17-4 PH steel which is much less prone to galling than 416 that many makers use. With that said, one should always use a good grease on his lugs whether shooting stainless, chrome moly or melonited actions. My BAT is very old and was probably made in the first or second year of production and it has never shown any galling....but I do use grease on the lugs. Good shooting...James

 

[JimPag]

In my experience, BAT actions do not gall easily. The stainless ones are made of 17-4 PH steel which is much less prone to galling than 416 that many makers use. With that said, one should always use a good grease on his lugs whether shooting stainless, chrome moly or melonited actions. My BAT is very old and was probably made in the first or second year of production and it has never shown any galling....but I do use grease on the lugs. Good shooting...James

I'm with you Jim. I have owned 3 Bats, a B & MB in stainless and a 3L all melonited. I never had an issue with either of the non melonited actions and I'm lazy sometimes of putting grease on the lugs. If I were going to build me another new rifle it would be a chrome moly melonited action.

 

[ridgeway]

Over time...will the melonite wear on high pressure areas such as the lug area? It's a coating, right?

Chromoly is the ticket. It's harder, runs super smooth, less worries about galling. Just need more care in keeping it from rusting and bluing wear.

 

[JDMock]

Over time...will the melonite wear on high pressure areas such as the lug area? It's a coating, right?

Chromoly is the ticket. It's harder, runs super smooth, less worries about galling. Just need more care in keeping it from rusting and bluing wear.

Similar metals (i.e. stainless on stainless) gall more than dissimilar metals (chrome moly on stainless) and that is the reason that many makers like BAT use 4140 chrome moly bolts and stainless actions. Other factors to consider in galling is the hardness and the smoothness of the mating surfaces. I have only had one action to gall at the lugs and it was not a BAT. Good shooting...James

 

[JimPag]

Over time...will the melonite wear on high pressure areas such as the lug area? It's a coating, right?

Chromoly is the ticket. It's harder, runs super smooth, less worries about galling. Just need more care in keeping it from rusting and bluing wear.

No melonite is not a coating. You take nitrogen, oxygen, and carbon and induce it to the metal all at once and the 3 elements bind and impregnate the top layer of the metal, usually 5 to 10 microns worth, and once it is cured, it leaves a Rockwell hardness of about 55-65. When I lived in Mass where I grew up, one of my friend's mother worked at S&W in Springfield for over 30 years. She took me thru a tour of the plant and I remember pistol slides being melonited and one of the workers explained to me the process.

 

[LRPV]

Over time...will the melonite wear on high pressure areas such as the lug area? It's a coating, right?

Chromoly is the ticket. It's harder, runs super smooth, less worries about galling. Just need more care in keeping it from rusting and bluing wear.

The color will wear (quickly in places) leaving a silver instead of black but the surface hardness is still there. I'm running a BAT B with action and bolt done on LG and a SS B with just the bolt melonited on HG. Both are smooth and slick.

 

[JDMock]

17-4 stainless is absolutely more gall prone than 416 stainless. bruce at bat told me especially till you get a couple of hundred rounds on it to baby it. he said it will fire harden and be more resistant to galling. I believe in the grease as good preventative measures forever.

Be very careful with terms like "absolutely", especially when there are many variables involved. Good shooting....James

 

[liseo]

I love the BAT actions, one SB in PPC and another VRPIC in 308 who I sold. But even with some care,(bolts lubed every two range trips) both have galling problems when I had closed bolt on the heavy side . No problems with Borden and Stillers, even with less care than with BAT.

 

[JDMock]

I love the BAT actions, one SB in PPC and another VRPIC in 308 who I sold. But even with some care,(bolts lubed every two range trips) both have galling problems when I had closed bolt on the heavy side . No problems with Borden and Stillers, even with less care than with BAT.

If we are going to condemn BAT actions with anecdotal evidence, here are some more examples. I have shot the following: Stiller, 3 BATS, Kelbly, Marsh, Shilen, Hall, 2 Rosenthal's and Borden. Of these actions I have shot since 1997, only one had a problem with galling and that was the Hall. Should I determine from this limited data that Halls are prone to galling.....NO! The problem lies with the "nut" at the back of the butt stock...it needs to be tightened to prevent galling. I would like to hear from someone like Jim Borden who uses both 15-5 and 416 in his stainless actions. Also, those of you that have had so much galling....was it the bolt lug or the abutment in the action that showed the galling. Since most bolts are made of some carbon (chrome moly) type of steel, then it must be prone to galling also. If Bruce Thom has seen so much galling with his actions, why does he continue to use 17-4 PH steel? This is not written to offend anyone, but I am working from limited experience with the various types of steel. If I were to buy a new action today, I would probably opt for a chrome moly BAT model B in multi-flat design....but that is just a personal preference for Benchrest. For a new long-range rifle with higher weight limits, I think I would go for the MB in chrome moly. Good shooting...James

 

[liseo]

I'm just reporting facts that happened to me, not expressing opinion. Maybe my fault for not being more careful. Forgive me.


Quote from someone who know...

It seems to me that he is saying that the 17-4 is more susceptible to galling...


"....Why do you think 416 cant be used for a high end action. Versus 17-4 it has sufficient toughness, typically used in the 40 Rc condition and has about 10% the chance of galling that 17-4 PH does. If the 17-4 wouldnt gall so easily against almost any other type of steel including 4140 and other alloys, that would make it a better choice, but the low sulfur high quality versions of 416 and 416R make just as good an action as 17-4, or 15-5 for that matter. I used to use 17-4 for all the steel inserts and main bodies. I got tired of the galling issues, went to 416 and never looked back. The only advantage of the 17-4 is the ease of hardening and somewhat higher toughness that is not required."

 

[liseo]

the imfo I shared came out of bruce toms mouth! also despite the tendency to gall,i love bat actions and is what I shoot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes.
My next 308 will probably be mounted using a VRPIC action

 

[JDMock]

the imfo I shared came out of bruce toms mouth! also despite the tendency to gall,i love bat actions and is what I shoot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I believe you are quoting Bruce accurately, but if your quote is verbatim, there was no mention of 416 steel. He was saying to be careful with "fresh" actions made of 17-4 with no mention of 416. Am I correct? Thanks, James

 

[ridgeway]

Boils down to user error if anything galls, lol.

 

[boltfluter]

I have seen more Bat actions come through my shop galled than all others combined. I believe the heat treat differential between lugs and lug seat is to close together. Not sure why they can't get their act together. I have a buddy that takes very good care of his Bat actions. Both have a slight amount of galling going on. Go figure.

Paul

www.boltfluting.com

 

[BOB LEE SWAGGER]

Is galling even possible with a melonited action?

 

[Judd]

Is galling even possible with a melonited action?

That is what BAT will tell you fixes the problem. I had mine done, by them at a very fair price after they fixed my galled lugs. Honestly, it wasn't that bad but they wanted to fix it and I could've cared less. I even made the statement to them "No offense, but I thought everyone who shot jammed bullets had a little galling if you owned a BAT". I have two sister SV's one galled and one didn't.

I haven't shot it enough since I got mine back to tell you if it won't do it again but I believe the guys at BAT and wouldn't hesitate to buy another action from them. I would buy it melonited just so I didn't have to deal with it and I like the look. Not sure why guys are getting all butt hurt. They are awesome actions but you have to take care of them when brand new or have it melonited...no big deal.