Question......22-250 Barrel Twist

[Mark M.]

Can anybody tell me why most all Factory 22-250 rifles have a 1-14 barrel twist, why not tighter twist for heavier bullets I'm sure it would be capable, it anybody can answer the question I'd appreciate it thank you for your time

 

[joed49]

When the .22-250 came out it was designed as a varmint round shooting 50 to 55 gr bullets. For those bullets all that is needed is a 1:14 twist.

Now days it seems many are caught up in fast twist and heavy for caliber bullets. Not saying it's a bad thing but most manufacturers don't manufacture a .22-250 rifle to shoot those bullets. Depends what your use for the cartridge is.

I own a Remington 700 VS in .22-250. I use it for hunting groundhogs. I'm more then happy shooting 55 gr bullets for my use. I have other rifles that I use for larger game.

 

[scope eye]

Savage makes a 12 and a 9 twist in 22-250 chambering.

Dean

 

[Bangs OH]

This Remington guy recently broke down and bought a Savage (.22-250), only for the twist rate that will stabilize the 53 V-Max; certainly haven't regretted it.
Cooper is another gunmaker that finally came into the twenty-first century. Their .22-250s (and assume Swifts, too) now come with 1:12" barrel twist.

 

[msinc]

......another gunmaker that finally came into the twenty-first century......

You write this as if a faster twist rate is something some manufacturers are just now getting around to figuring out. Simply going up in twist rate and making faster twist barrels by and of itself does nothing and may be not what you want, depending on bullet selection. If it did then most 22 caliber rifles would have a 1-in-7 barrel and none would have less than 1-in-9.
This will come as a galactic shock to many shooters today, but as a proven, general rule most rifles shoot their best accuracy wise with the slowest twist that will still stabilize the bullet being used for the given working range of distance. Many shooters mistake an over stabilized bullet for a tuning issue and keep right on trying different loads. Many shooters set up a rifle { example a 223} to shoot 600 yards minimum with heavy bullets and wonder why they see the groups they see at 100.
It's just another example of that good ol' American way of thinking..."if some is good than more must be better"....

 

[Gary Wiant]

I had a custom 22-250 built for longer range ground hogs, my factory Savage was a 12 twist, but 55gr get beat around a lot by the wind so my gun builder SO Custom Rifles built me a 7.5 twist to shoot heavier weight bullets & let me just say it's a hammer. I just had shoulder surgery and right before the surgery I went out and shot a seating depth ladder but I have not had a chance to chronograph it yet so I'm not sure what speed I'm getting.

 

[joed49]

You write this as if a faster twist rate is something some manufacturers are just now getting around to figuring out. Simply going up in twist rate and making faster twist barrels by and of itself does nothing and may be not what you want, depending on bullet selection. If it did then most 22 caliber rifles would have a 1-in-7 barrel and none would have less than 1-in-9.
This will come as a galactic shock to many shooters today, but as a proven, general rule most rifles shoot their best accuracy wise with the slowest twist that will still stabilize the bullet being used for the given working range of distance. Many shooters mistake an over stabilized bullet for a tuning issue and keep right on trying different loads. Many shooters set up a rifle { example a 223} to shoot 600 yards minimum with heavy bullets and wonder why they see the groups they see at 100.
It's just another example of that good ol' American way of thinking..."if some is good than more must be better"....

Well put. That is a fact that you don't want to over spin a bullet for best accuracy. I was taught this a long time ago when I was very much into long distance shooting. This is why I only own 1 rifle with a fast twist, an AR15. With a 1:7 twist I noticed pretty quickly that the lighter bullets of 55 gr just don't shoot that well, and my theory was that these bullets are spinning to fast because of the 1:7 twist. I also noticed the heavy bullets worked best past a certain distance. Many of my friends owning fast twist ARs have experienced the same shooting 55 gr bullets.

There is also another downside with heavy bullets in my shooting. I live in a rural area and mainly hunt groundhogs. In a somewhat populated area I'd be asking for trouble shooting any bullet that can ricochet, which is why I shoot only Varmint type bullets. This cost one of my friend's who used to shoot heavy bullets the price of a cow.

Heavy bullets and fast twist reminds me of a saying one of my teachers taught the class years ago, "You don't get something for nothing". I see nothing wrong with a fast twist but like everything else it has its limits of use.

 

[msinc]

Well put. That is a fact that you don't want to over spin a bullet for best accuracy. I was taught this a long time ago when I was very much into long distance shooting. This is why I only own 1 rifle with a fast twist, an AR15. With a 1:7 twist I noticed pretty quickly that the lighter bullets of 55 gr just don't shoot that well, and my theory was that these bullets are spinning to fast because of the 1:7 twist. I also noticed the heavy bullets worked best past a certain distance. Many of my friends owning fast twist ARs have experienced the same shooting 55 gr bullets.

There is also another downside with heavy bullets in my shooting. I live in a rural area and mainly hunt groundhogs. In a somewhat populated area I'd be asking for trouble shooting any bullet that can ricochet, which is why I shoot only Varmint type bullets. This cost one of my friend's who used to shoot heavy bullets the price of a cow.

Heavy bullets and fast twist reminds me of a saying one of my teachers taught the class years ago, "You don't get something for nothing". I see nothing wrong with a fast twist but like everything else it has its limits of use.

Yeah , it really is a matter of and makes most sense to me that you should first decide what your average range will be and what you intend to kill and then select a bullet and the twist is really a follow on.
I build about 3 or 4 custom rifles a year for local guys, I don't advertise and I don't compete, got nothing to brag about. When someone comes to me for a rifle they are usually surprised to hear me ask, "what bullet are you going to use"....often they are surprised when I explain why I am asking.
I am just a local hillbilly and when I am not building someone a rifle I'm sitting on the porch eatin' pickled squirrel feet.

 

[Hondo64d]

You write this as if a faster twist rate is something some manufacturers are just now getting around to figuring out. Simply going up in twist rate and making faster twist barrels by and of itself does nothing and may be not what you want, depending on bullet selection. If it did then most 22 caliber rifles would have a 1-in-7 barrel and none would have less than 1-in-9.
This will come as a galactic shock to many shooters today, but as a proven, general rule most rifles shoot their best accuracy wise with the slowest twist that will still stabilize the bullet being used for the given working range of distance. Many shooters mistake an over stabilized bullet for a tuning issue and keep right on trying different loads. Many shooters set up a rifle { example a 223} to shoot 600 yards minimum with heavy bullets and wonder why they see the groups they see at 100.
It's just another example of that good ol' American way of thinking..."if some is good than more must be better"....

I challenge anyone to do this with a 12 or 14 twist 22-250 barrel. That’s 5 shots in about 2.5” at 710 yards with 75gr Amaxes. The same load routinely groups in the .3s to .4s at 100 yards.

John

 

[joed49]

I challenge anyone to do this with a 12 or 14 twist 22-250 barrel. That’s 5 shots in about 2.5” at 710 yards with 75gr Amaxes. The same load routinely groups in the .3s to .4s at 100 yards.

John

See, you matched the bullet and twist to what you wanted to do which is the right idea. I have no need to do that when my shots are limited to 400 yards where I hunt with buildings and live stock. If I feel the need to go that far at the range I have rifles in other calibers for that. And that is what msinc is conveying in his message. It's all about matching the bullet and twist to the use.

 

[msinc]

See, you matched the bullet and twist to what you wanted to do which is the right idea. I have no need to do that when my shots are limited to 400 yards where I hunt with buildings and live stock. If I feel the need to go that far at the range I have rifles in other calibers for that. And that is what msinc is conveying in his message. It's all about matching the bullet and twist to the use.

I'm not real sure exactly what point the cat is trying to make...he doesn't really say what his twist is, but because he is issuing a challenge to slower twist rifles I am guessing his is faster {as it should be to shoot like that}....if it is, then exactly what you said is correct, he matched the twist with the bullet and that is precisely what we are advocating, so why the challenge???

 

[Bangs OH]

You write this as if a faster twist rate is something some manufacturers are just now getting around to figuring out. Simply going up in twist rate and making faster twist barrels by and of itself does nothing and may be not what you want, depending on bullet selection. If it did then most 22 caliber rifles would have a 1-in-7 barrel and none would have less than 1-in-9.
This will come as a galactic shock to many shooters today, but as a proven, general rule most rifles shoot their best accuracy wise with the slowest twist that will still stabilize the bullet being used for the given working range of distance. Many shooters mistake an over stabilized bullet for a tuning issue and keep right on trying different loads. Many shooters set up a rifle { example a 223} to shoot 600 yards minimum with heavy bullets and wonder why they see the groups they see at 100.
It's just another example of that good ol' American way of thinking..."if some is good than more must be better"....

I never stated or implied that the faster the twist the better. Simply was glad to see that more gun makers were going to a 1:12 standard .22-250 barrel twist, because the 1:14 won't stabilize the newer longer, high-BC 53 grain VMax bullet (a 12 will; doesn't require anything faster).
And, "I write this like they're just now getting around to figuring out faster twist rate"?? No...actually, do you or a lot of light-bullet Savage shooters even know that company hasn't made a 14-twist M12/10 .22-250 in years? They've been 12, and hasn't seemed to make a dime's worth of difference in accuracy or stability of the "regular" 40-50 grainers. And, Cooper is still using 50 SBKs for shooting their test targets since they switched rates.
Looks like some professional engineers are willing to risk losing customers, jobs and reputations to switch twist rates to 1:12 in order to bring ex-.22 centerfire shooters like me back, by offering rifles that will stabilize modern bullets like the 53 or 60 VMax (with .204s and 6mm's on either end, I haven't had much use for the .22 CF for years). So, on this one I'll side with the pros, even go so far as declare that the 1:14 .22-250, like the 1:12 204 Ruger barrel twist, should be ruled obsolete.

 

[Sniper338]

Can anybody tell me why most all Factory 22-250 rifles have a 1-14 barrel twist, why not tighter twist for heavier bullets I'm sure it would be capable, it anybody can answer the question I'd appreciate it thank you for your time

cuz they anticipated berger making ther 52gr FB varmint bullet that is a wicked SOB!!!!

 

[joed49]

Bangs OH, I understood you. I know little about the 53 gr VMax other then it has a high BC for it's weight and it won't stabilize in a 1:14 twist. So you need a 1:12 twist to use it. It's a good combination.

I'm not a big fan of the .22-250 as all the ones I've owned only do exceptional with a bullet from 52 gr to 55 gr. The only reason I have mine is because of the live stock and buildings where I hunt. To be honest my Remington would be great with a 1:12 twist and that 53 gr bullet as it is should not ricochet for my use. It seems that civilization is taking over OH, at least where I live. I long for the days when I used to hunt groundhogs in central OH where there were long distances and nothing to worry about along the bullet path.

 

[Gabe22BR]

I challenge anyone to do this with a 12 or 14 twist 22-250 barrel. That’s 5 shots in about 2.5” at 710 yards with 75gr Amaxes. The same load routinely groups in the .3s to .4s at 100 yards.

John

Got any @ 1000 ??

 

[284winner]

Can anybody tell me why most all Factory 22-250 rifles have a 1-14 barrel twist, why not tighter twist for heavier bullets I'm sure it would be capable, it anybody can answer the question I'd appreciate it thank you for your time

As stated by the first response to your question, the 22-250 was designed for the lighter bullets when it was first introduced. Remember, heavy .224 bullets did not exist way back when. Even when Carmichael/Huntington designed the 22 Cheetah in the 70s, they still ran a slow twist tube pushing the 50 weight range bullets over that 4300 fps range. If those heavier .224 bullets existed, I think the consideration may have been for a 9 twist barrel. Considering the 69 Sierra wasn't introduced till the mid 80s and the 22-250 was out in the mid 60s, quite a gap for heavy bullet thinking for the .224 calibers. Personally I think the 9 twist factory barrels fixes all the bullet wt to twist issues. Making a 9 twist 22-250 barrel, most gun manufacturers would see a better push of the popular 22-250 rifle.

 

[Hondo64d]

Got any @ 1000 ??

No, I shoot on my own place and 830 is about as far as I can go.

John

 

[Hondo64d]

I'm not real sure exactly what point the cat is trying to make...he doesn't really say what his twist is, but because he is issuing a challenge to slower twist rifles I am guessing his is faster {as it should be to shoot like that}....if it is, then exactly what you said is correct, he matched the twist with the bullet and that is precisely what we are advocating, so why the challenge???

My barrel is an 8” twist Criterion.

The point I’m making is I fail to see the downside to the faster twist. My fast twist 22-250 shoots as well as a slower twist and has the advantage of stabilizing high BC bullets that fight the wind much better than the faster but lower BC bullets. I have not tried the lighter bullets in my barrel yet, but I suppose I should just in the name I’d science. Every one I have talked to though says they work just fine with no degradation in accuracy.

I’d bet that if manufacturers quietly shifted over to an 8” twist, Joe Consumer would never know the difference and those rifle loonies like me would be elated with the ability to shoot wind bucking high BC bullets.

John

 

[long40shot]

I challenge anyone to do this with a 12 or 14 twist 22-250 barrel. That’s 5 shots in about 2.5” at 710 yards with 75gr Amaxes. The same load routinely groups in the .3s to .4s at 100 yards.

John

Ok, I'm your huckleberry.

 

[mikeinct]

Can anybody tell me why most all Factory 22-250 rifles have a 1-14 barrel twist, why not tighter twist for heavier bullets I'm sure it would be capable, it anybody can answer the question I'd appreciate it thank you for your time

If you look at the history of the 22-250 I think you will see. The old standard was the 220 swift..it achieved those silly for the day hyper velocities shooting with what we consider light weight for caliber bullets..ie: 40 45 & 50 grain projectiles...That said if you want to get the most range with very good accuracy from a 1-14 twist,Try an old fav bullet of mine..Sierra #1350 55gr semi-pointed ..it works very well out to 400 yards..I got my first Varmint rifle back in the seventies a 22-250. my bud had the same uggh.Ruger M-77 heavy barrel model in 220 swift..He used the hornady 50 sx ? ..We would compete & brag to each other who's rifle was best..Mike in Ct