Quality of a Savage target action

[quillow]

Kevin at Stockade makes parts and stocks too for Savages. He doesn't get the attention that SSS does he specializes in Savages. His customer service is great and he's a real nice guy. Be prepared to have your ear talked off, he really spends time with you on your project.

 

[Laurie]

Kenny, I understand what you are saying,but i can get a trigger down to 4-6 oz. isn't cutting it for some. It will not work for those who shoot free recoil but it will work for those who hold it. The savage target action is right hand only. That is the end of the line for me. [johara1]

I don't understand that comment. I won the UKBRA Factory Sporter championship last year with an out of the box 12 LRPV in .204 Ruger and used 'free recoil' throughout. I didn't even bother adjusting the AccuTrigger pull weight leaving it at 12 ounces for reliability and lack of fussiness in bolt closure etc.

What you cannot do with the AccuTrigger, or not so easily at any rate, is to whip the five shots off super-fast. You can actually shoot surprisingly quickly, but it takes a lot of practice to get a fast, smooth and consistent trigger pull to avoid trigger lock-up. I prefer to leave my AccuTriggers on the heavy side (1lb on my 12PT based .223R F/TR rifle) as in my view the absence of gremlins outweighs a few ounces heavier pull. I keep seeing 'problems' with these triggers being posted and nine times out of ten, it's down to the owners adjusting the trigger down to 6 ounces pull. It works but usually only for a while when further adjustment and fiddling is required.

Laurie,
York, England

PS I can compare the AccuTrigger with a 'proper competition job'. My 6BR Remy 700 based LG sports a BR Jewell set at 2 ounces, and I have an FN SPR with a Jewell set rather heavier. The BR trigger is great and I love using it, but I'm almost as happy with my two (soon to be three) Savage PT and LRPV triggers.

 

[johara1]

Laurie, If you shot free recoil with a 12oz. trigger you must have had the bags so tight the gun could not move. Free recoil,the gun moves so easy that if the range is slightly up hill the gun will not stay against the forend stop. You had to have your shoulder against it to pull a trigger of that weight. I didn't think you will see an Savages on the equipment report from the super shoot......jim

 

[Laurie]

Johara1,

definitely free-recoil. Our 100yd BR range fortunately has the targets on a level with the benches and my shoulder is somewhere between one and two inches behind the buttplate. To operate the trigger, I use the forefinger and thumb gently pinching the trigger blade and rear of the trigger guard, squeezing the blade backwards.

Despite the thumb being on the rear trigger guard surface, the rifle has no trouble recoiling back until my shoulder stops it. I accept that you couldn't use the index finger alone with a 12oz trigger without moving the rifle back on the bags. As I said, this method doesn't facilitate getting five shots off in 20 or so seconds however, but since the flags hardly ever stay constant on our range for the necessary 30 seconds, I'm quite happy to take each shot when I think the flags have returned to my chosen condition.

Laurie

 

[johara1]

Laurie, I thank you for telling me how you did it. That is not free recoil, but it works for you. Free recoil the only thing touching the gun is your finger on the trigger. I use a method of pulling the gun into my shoulder and letting go of it then use my finger on the trigger at 1.5 oz.This limits the gun movement and it seems to work at a 1000 br. This works for me and your method works for you but it's not true free recoil........jim

 

[82boy]

I hate to say this but from the answers I am reading it seems like people do not have experience with a Sharp Shooters Supply built Savage. The original posters stated that the actions would be timed and trued. And nothing was said about the accu-trigger.

If you have never felt a Savage that has been done by Fred, you really should it will impress you. I have had the chance to compair them to custom guns and they are on par. I can say that I have both Savages and Bats, and the SSS worked Savages is every bit as smooth, and even a bit smoother, at bolt opening than Several Bats, and Pandas I have felt or owned. Now the bolt travel backwards is not as tight, but if that is something that would realy bother you, then buy a Dave Kiff (PTG) bolt body, and the problem is solved.

On the trigger, I have two SSS evolution triggers and with placing the action into a trigger weight sled or from just checking the trigger with a Lyman scale, I can say both of them break at a repeatable 2oz every time. IT is nothing like the accu-trigger. With them considered yes is a Savage is built right it will free recoil , or shoot any way you would like , and to state it again if I blind folded you and placed you behind one of the built Savages you would have a hard time telling the difference from it or a Bat, or other custom action.

 

[nhm16]

I hate to say this but from the answers I am reading it seems like people do not have experience with a Sharp Shooters Supply built Savage. The original posters stated that the actions would be timed and trued. And nothing was said about the accu-trigger.

I agree. I have a varmint action done by SSS with the Competition trigger, and it is smooth as glass, smoother than my Stiller TAC30. I can also open and close the bolt with one finger and not upset the gun in the bags. As noted before, the bolt travel is sloppier, but that doesn't bother me. I don't know if I'd use a Savage action for short range BR, but liked my varmint action so much I order a target action with the evolution trigger for my new F-class build.

 

[Kenny474]

82Boy and nhm16, thanks for the info. I have never had the opportunity to operate a SSS tuned Savage Target action, so I appreciate your opinion on how well he can actually make one work. I have actually done a few mods to my action to make it smoother, and it is better than a stock Savage. But it's not a target action, nor is it on par with a Fred Moreo tune either. I will be installing a Kiff bolt to remove the slop in my action, as I really enjoy a tight bolt. It's more for my own pleasure than anything else, and I don't expect it to really improve my accuracy. But having an action that you really enjoy operating will make shooting more fun, and that's what I really care about.

I shoot the same way that Laurie does, with only my thumb and finger on the trigger and guard. It works for me with my 5oz trigger, and I barely need to touch the guard to keep the rifle from moving. More to keep a consistent hand position than anything.

If the Evolution trigger is better than my Rifle Basix SAV-2, than it has to be one heck of a trigger and would likely please most anyone. And if the action can be made as smooth as 82boy says, then it makes it that much more of a viable option.

Kenny

 

[RonAKA]

I have a Savage LRPV 6BR with the target action that will shoot 100 meter 3 shot groups in the 1's and 2's, or essentially solidly touching one holes. For reasons I don't understand I get a flyer about ever 10 shots that opens up the averages.

Is it the action? Don't know, but I doubt it.

Is it the trigger? While I was initially quite disappointed in the trigger, I now have it shooting very reliably at 7 oz. I doubt it is the trigger. Still I will probably attempt to get the trigger down to 4 oz. just to see if I can do it.

Is it the shooter? I really don't think so, because I cannot call the flyers.

So I am thinking it most likely is the barrel or the reloading quality control, but not the action.

I guess my point is that I think the action is good from an accuracy point of view. Does it close like silk and open the same? No! I don't shoot in competition and have all the time I want. My shooting frequency is to maintain a somewhat uniform barrel temperature while trying to dope the wind. But, I have to say the action closes very poorly. The very first movement of the action when the bolt is moved down is stiff and jerky. If that is bad for your shooting needs, then this is probably not the action for you.

 

[Laurie]

Ron,

I think that like many factory actions, you get differences from one individual assembly to another. I have an LRPV (RBLP model) plus two RBRP PT models and there is a substantial variation in their smoothness. The LRPV is really good - one of the best out of the box rifles I've ever owned and subjectively as good as many single-shot target actions. It is a real pleasure to shoot. If this had been my only Savage, I'd be writing posts that say 'why waste your money on tricked-up single-shot Savage actions?'

Unfortunately, the other two are nothing like as good, one in fact relatively poor with distinct resistance at the top of the primary extraction / bolt-handle-lift movement. I can live with them OK, just wonder why the're not as good as number 3.

Our own small Savage specialist importer and rifle builder, Stuart Anselm (Osprey Rifles) has been waiting forever for some timed actions from the US. Hopefully, he'll have delivery for the start of the new year for builds for next season. Now .... the problem is that too many guys are singing SSS' work here and what Savage 12 PT / LRPV will do far too highly! What we need is some bad-mouthing to drop demand and leave some spare actions for us Brits.

Only joking of course. I'm delighted that Savage actions (and rifles generally) are doing so well.

The comments about just how good the SSS triggers are is interesting. I've never been that bothered about this issue as long as the pull weight is reasonable, and the break crisp, so have been quite happy with the AccuTrigger for F-Class, but not so much so for BR, but this does sound good. It's back to money again - spend too much on a Savage, and certainly by the time we get them into the UK, we're paying as much for it as, maybe more than, a Barnard Model S or Model P.

Laurie,
York, England

 

[MarkS]

RonAKA,

Look at my post above also. Are you shooting over wind flags? a slight wind, that you can't feel can open a 0.1" to 0.250" with ease. I have a LRPV 6BR 8 tw. The stock, is not the best for benchrest shooting. Also the bolt lift is heavy. All this together can cause a flyer form nowhere. You upset the set up. the group will suffer. My gun is prone to high or low from out of the blue.

Mark Schronce

 

[xr650rRider]

I've got 2 SSS supposedly tuned Savage Target actions now and not really impressed with either one. I've dis-assembled them and the first one the only thing done was the bolt face was trued with what appears to be a 60 grit stone with the ejector in place. This now is a brass colored ring after shooting 100 rounds. The back of the bolt head had the chamfer removed and the wave washer was moved from behind the 2 bolt head halves to between them. The firing pin protrusion looks to be reset as firing pin dimples are a little shallower in the primers. I had already installed a lift kit and polished the internals and nothing inside was retouched. Trigger pull is the same as before I sent it in. Bolt lift is the same as before. I've got this one set about 12 oz. and if you close the bolt a little briskly the sear safety engages and you have to re-cock it. The 2nd T&T action is on the rifle build with F'ed up stock I just got back. The same things were done to this one and about 5 coils were cut off the blade spring. This trigger is set for 1 lb and does not trip as easy as my other one. The bolt face has a little smoother finish. Bolt lift is just a little easier but these are fire forming rounds with brand new brass.

 

[McKinneyMike]

I have rarely heard anything but very high praise for Fred's work and quality of his work. They are often lax in communications, but his work was never an issue. Have you been able to contact them and if so, what was the answer to correct the issues?

 

[RonAKA]

My gun is prone to high or low from out of the blue.

That is my most common flyer pattern as well.

 

[Steve Blair]

Both my 12F rifles were done by Fred and the bolt faces bushed by Greg Tannel. The .308 I shoot in F-TR is holding ~6-8" vertical at 1000 with heavy bullet loads. The other 12F currently has a .22-250 barrel and exhibits the same behavior Mark and Mike describe. I see no difference in the two actions and they are bedded identically. I am even shooting the .22-250 from a Farley rest while I shoot the .308 from a bipod. There must be a reason but I have not been able to identify it.

 

[xr650rRider]

I have rarely heard anything but very high praise for Fred's work and quality of his work. They are often lax in communications, but his work was never an issue. Have you been able to contact them and if so, what was the answer to correct the issues?

Won't even answer an email about lack of work on first one. Cost me $162 + for no improvement. I have a $1985 complete rifle with a $625 stock that has a $300 clear coat finish that has to be removed and replaced. Took 10 months to get the rifle and I only got a response on Savage shooters forum nothing on email, about sending the stock in for refund. No replacement stock. Meanwhile I will not have a shootable rifle while someone else builds a stock for it. They will not refund money for botched $300 clear coat job. I will escalate to the next level and request a charge back from Visa. If that don't work then its lawyer time. They owe me $349 and I intend on collecting. Probably more but T&T jobs are subjective. I know the first one had no machining work done on the receiver face or lugs. I can't tell on the 2nd one as I would have to remove the barrel. I see absolutely no improvement over stock. The complete rifle builds trigger will not engage the sear safety as easily when the bolt is closed briskly but that is the only improvement.