QL Program and IMR 8208XBR load data for 6.5X47L

[TheSnake]

I gather from the posts on this forum that there is no powder input data available in QL for IMR 8208 XBR powder. There is however load information available on the Hodgdon sight for several different cartridges using this powder that show pressure information and such. Since Hodgdon does not list load information for the 6.5X47L, I was wondering if one could extrapolate (reverse engineer) the powder specs in QL by entering the published information from Hodgdon for a different cartridge. With this calculated powder information, you could then determine minimum and maximum load data for the 6.5X47L using 8208. I do not have QL so I do not know if it can reverse engineer a powders data like this. If it can, is someone with QL willing to give this a try? If this program can accomplish this, I see me purchasing it in the very near future.

I will be loading 130Gr. Berger VLD hunting bullets behind R7 1/2 primers and can get you any other information you need.

If this information is already out there somewhere, I have not been able to find it.

Thanks for your help.

 

[TheSnake]

Someone out there must be up to the challenge.

 

[Erik Cortina]

Yes, it can be done, I have done it for my 6 x 47 Lapua, but haven't done if for my 6.5 x 47 Lapua because Reloader 17 is working really good for me right now, and because I only have one pound of 8208 XBR at the moment!

-Erik

 

[Steve Blair]

I posted this some time back. I hope it helps. My collection does not include a 6.5x47L or I could offer some more specific help.

 

[TheSnake]

Thanks Gator! You list 33 Gr for the 123's, what would do you think starting point for the 130's would be? (I know this is only a guess and I will go slowly) Is there a big disadvantage with using less than a 100% load density? I know the issues with way less than 100% but I would think somewhere over 90% should be tolerable.

X3M, I have read that the R17 works well in this round. I have also read some very good things about the 8208 and wanted to give it a try. I was not asking anyone to load any up and give them a try if that was the impression you got.

 

[Erik Cortina]

What I meant is that I only have one pound of powder, and therefore will be using it for my 6 x 47, if I was to work up a load for my 6.5 x 47 then I would run out and then wouldn't have any left for either cartridge! Dig?

By the way, with the 130's I would start a about 31 gr. And work up from there, I did it earlier and shows 34 to be about max with the Berger 130 VLD's.

-X3M

 

[Steve Blair]

I would start a little lower with 130s. Loading density over 90% is fine, especially with easily ignited, relatively fast powders like 8208. Problems arise when the powders are very slow or difficult to ignite.

I have used RL17 very successfully in 6BR with 107 Sierras. One thing that I have observed is that best results with RL17 are obtained near max pressure. The following was five shots from one of my Savage 12Fs in 6BR with 32.5 RL17 under a Sierra 107 and Wolf KVB-5.56M primers. The temperature was 100 degrees when fired.

High Low Avg ES SD 2912.2 2904.3 2908.7 7.9 4.1

 

[TheSnake]

Thanks guys! This is exactly what I was looking for.

 

[ktoney]

Very light extractor marks starting showing up around 37.8gr. Accuracy seemed best from 37.4-37.8 with es 10fps at 2960fps. 38gr gave ~3000fps with some light extractor marks. At 39gr extractor marks are getting heavier and primer pockets are loose with just over 3100fps.

I really didn't think the extractor marks were that bad as the primers weren't horrible. Now knowing the pockets are loose I'd stay away from 39gr.

This was all done using a 27" bartlein 5r

Note: Info provided to me from another shooter using XBR n 130 bergers

 

[RJinTexas]

I believe someone if my border line alzheimer memory is correct (sleepygator) stated that AR2210 is suppose to be equivalent of IMR 8208. Steve please correct me if I am incorrect.

Regards
RJ

 

[Steve Blair]

Further to earlier info:

ADI 2206H is the closest to 8208 XBR that QuickLOAD offers. It is sold in the US as H4895. The correct canister ID is ADI 2210-V02.

ADI 2206H has been working OK for me as a reference. It is a little off in density and burning rate. 8208 is a little denser and seems a little slower.

 

[Mtn Grizzly]

By the way, with the 130's I would start a about 31 gr. And work up from there, I did it earlier and shows 34 to be about max with the Berger 130 VLD's.

-X3M

Ktoney said:
QUOTE: "Very light extractor marks starting showing up around 37.8gr. Accuracy seemed best from 37.4-37.8 with es 10fps at 2960fps. 38gr gave ~3000fps with some light extractor marks. At 39gr extractor marks are getting heavier and primer pockets are loose with just over 3100fps.

I really didn't think the extractor marks were that bad as the primers weren't horrible. Now knowing the pockets are loose I'd stay away from 39gr.END QUOTE

This, to me, seems like a pretty LARGE spread in powder charges. Could the original posters please clarify, what bullet they are using as well as the powder charge?

My bullet of choice is the Berger 130 VLD and I have an 8lb'er inbound.


Alan

 

[Erik Cortina]

QuickLOAD does not show IMR 8208XBR, but the max load for H4895 is 36.5 gr. jumping the bullets with a AOL of 2.800". So for 8208 XBR I would start about 31 with the 130 Berger VLD and work up!

 

[GSSP]

Erik,

1) I bought my new Apple MacBook from my best friend, Dan; aka MtnGrizzly, thus my previous post under that moniker until I realized I needed to log in under my moniker "gssp".

2) My 8lb jug of IMR 8208 arrived Friday.

3) I rechecked my throat wear on my 26" Krieger 8:5 twist and now put it at .146" instead of the original .104" after 600 rounds (.042" growth).

4) With that in mind I jammed my 130 VLD's .010" in the lands and loaded 3-rd snacks in .5 gr increments from 31 to 36 gr and am heading out to shoot them today, Monday, as soon as I get my son off to school and my wife sent off with her sister. I plan on shooting a 300-400 yd pressure ladder.

Results to come later today; hopefully.

Oh, and by the way, Erik. Congratulations!

Alan

 

[Erik Cortina]

Thank you!

Let us know how the shooting went!

-Erik

 

[GSSP]

Didn't make it out today. Wife ended up in hospital. I'll report back after things settle down & I make it out to shoot.

Alan

 

[GSSP]

Ok, was able to run out for a few hours and get some pressure & velocity data. Not a great day to shoot a ladder but I think it will do.

Surgeon 591 (smithed by Chris Matthews of Longshot rifles)
26" Krieger 1:8.5 MTU contour (600 round count)
AICS 1.5 stock
NF 5.5-22x50mm w/ NP-R1
6.5x47 Lapua, original throat .104" now .146". No turn .294" neck.
130 Berger VLD Hunting, .010" into lands
CCI 450 primer
Redding Type-S FL w/ .289" bushing
Redding comp seater, seated to 2.760"
Just completed my load development for 40.24 gr H4350, .010" into lands, CCI450, 2800 fps, ES 24, SD 9, .25 to .6 MOA.

Harris 6-9" swivel bipod
CED M2 chrono with center of screens @ 13.5' from muzzle, sun light from my 9pm. Shot between 11 am and 1 pm.
65'F @ start, 77'F at finish
47.47 Baro
Wind, 3 to 15 mph, average 9mph from 11 am to 1 pm direction.
Sunny

I started off by shooting 5 sighters into a group @ 385 yds. 33.5 gr = 2597 fps AV - 11 ES - 3 SD. Four shots into 1.5" with 5th out to 3". That's .389 MOA or .78 MOA. Looks promising as far as accuracy and good ES/SD. At least for me. Oh, and I shoot off a portable fold-up picnic table so with the wind, the rifle was not still. One of my favorite spots is a sort of bowl where I can shoot in a near 180 deg direction so I can keep the wind pretty much between 11 and 1; in my face.

31 gr to 36 gr in .5 gr increments. Three shots each shot at 385 yds. Used my VIC 123 elec scale to keep powder charges to with in +/- .02 gr.

31 gr/ 2436 - 2435 - 2454 / ES = 19
31.5/ 2474 - 2462 - 2445 / ES = 29
32 gr/2496 - 2504 - 2498 / ES = 8
32.5 /2522 - 2528 - 2523 / ES = 6
33 gr/2534 - 2548 - 2536 / ES = 12
33.5 /2599 - 2612 - 2616 / ES = 17
34 gr/2632 - 2634 - 2626 / ES = 8
34.5 /2643 - 2648ej-2641shiny/ES = 7
35 gr/2649ej-2657shiny-2650ej/ES = 8
35.5/2728ej-3734ej -2728 / ES = 6
36 gr/2768ej & stiff - 2762ej - 2780/ES = 18

ej = ejector mark on brass
shinny = shinny smear on brass
stiff = stiff bolt lift

ES 335 fps

Really haven't had a chance to eval the target which was a 3" circle. I color coded each 3-shot group of bullets with perm marker; green, red, black, blue, then repeating the same four colors again. Works great because my Zeiss spotter @ 45x had too much vibration from the wind to tell all the impacts. Thanks Jason Baney!

I'll try and post pics later.

For now, I'm impressed with the accuracy potential, ES and SD but not the velocity. I saw some guy over on Snipershide.com witnessed a chrono printout of something around 3000 fps. Must have been a looooong barrel and loooots of pressure.

Alan

 

[TheSnake]

GSSP,
Great information and excellent detail. Looking forward to the target results. I too am a little disappointed with the velocity but I am wondering if the temperature tolerances of this powder will make up in accuracy over the lower velocity.

Thanks!
Robert.

 

[Erik Cortina]

I can get 3000 fps. with my hunting 6.5x47 with 25" bbl with 130 Berger VLD and Reloader 17.

-Erik

 

[GSSP]

Guys,

Thanks for the compliments I shoot tactical am worried about the drop in velocity. Living in Utah, shooting in wind is something I worry about. If it were something like 50 fps I don't think I would sweat it but to go down to the max 34 gr charge, that does not have any pressure signs, means I'd loose a solid 170 fps; or more! As far as Rel 17, it's sounds good but am worried about the possibility of burning out my barrel too soon. And.....I have a pipeline to free or low cost Hodgdon/IMR/Win powders.

But, maybe their is a silver lining to this. If I get really good at practicing in wind using IMR 8208, I'll shoot better at matches with H4350.

Trying to find the positive side of this.

Alan