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Putting people on decent guns

Wolfdog91

Silver $$ Contributor
Love being able to do this. I don't have the best guns at all but their set up to be easier to shoot then the average whatever. More and more I've had people ask to come shooting with me and I say sure . Bring out some of my set ups ,get them one set up, bipod rear bag all comfortable for them and all that and and the look on their faces when they actually feel comfortable along with make first round impact :cool: I mean usually it's only at like 200yd but when most folks don't shoot past 50yd it's a cool experience . Also nice ha ing people understand an AR-15 is good for more then just mag dumping in to the 25yd berm :D
IMG_20240518_201257340.jpgIMG_20240518_192447351.jpgmy poor lil Gopher target though :DIMG_20240518_211510580.jpg
 
Good on you man! That is the way to set the hook.

I was recently at a group match and a local guy shows up to see what the deal was. This was Thursday, so all that was going on was practice. When the line was clear, he starts asking questions to me and a couple other guys about benchrest guns. After a minute, the big question pops up. How much does it cost to get into this? One of the guys chimes right in and tells him it costs about a million dollars as he points a finger towards his $750K motor home. He said it kiddingly, but not entirely because he never gave the guy a straight answer which I thought was pretty shitty.

When Mr. Motorhome walked away, I started talking to this guy about what it actually takes, and asked him if he'd like to shoot my gun. He was surprised when I asked. It was a big deal to him, but no big deal at all really. I let him dry fire the gun until he could put his finger on the trigger without accidentally dropping the hammer. Once he was good to go on that, I gave him some basic instructions on how to use the joystick rest and told him to only shoot when the flags were pointing in the same direction and the tails weren't sticking straight out. He fireformed some brass for me and was impressed with his accuracy. I told him he hadn't seen anything yet and explained the fireform process. I then produced some twice fired, benchrest ready ammo and let him have at it. He shot one group that would not have been competitive. On group two I slowed him down a little and made him pay more attention. After his last shot in that group, he turned to me, smiled, and told me he just put all the bullets in the same hole. Then he told me that he thinks it was pretty simple and he'd be able to do it.

I hear shooters bitch all the time about lack of attendance at matches. Here is an idea. Instead of being all wrapped up in yourself, how about actually promoting what you are doing instead of giving it lip service.
 
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I've been shooting AR's & pistols in tactical training for a very long time. I reload all my own ammo as well. I'm no beginner by any means. A few months ago I decided to investigate bolt guns and training on them with the idea what I learned from them would help my AR shooting. I've owned inexpensive guns and uber expensive ones and quickly learned it's easy to spend a lot of money on guns that you just don't bond with. Same with my guitars and amps. Lord I wish I had some of that money back!

I did a tremendous amount of research on bolt guns and settled on a Savage Axis II Precision. They have a very good reputation for accuracy and reliability. I installed a Vortex 5x25 scope, total investment less than $1500.00, and went shooting. I was pretty amazed at how much different this style of shooting is. So I started doing more research, and made the mistake of posting about my purchase on another site.

The responses were immediate and vicious. They made negative comments about how horrible the gun was, how I needed to spend $5k on a custom built gun or I wasn't serious. The list of their comments only got worse and more obscene. I'm not the kind of guy who takes shit and doesn't respond, and I did. A firefight ensued when the bottom feeding pieces of human debris came out of their momma's basements and chimed in. I'm no longer on that site, and to be honest, I've learned far more here than I ever did there.

My point is this as a newcomer. Don't talk over the heads of those showing an interest. Don't direct them to dream guns most can't afford, or are unwilling to spend as a newbie. Drop the "buy once, cry once" mentality. Only a fool parent would buy their child a $4K Gibson Les Paul and spend another $4K on an amp for a child showing an interest in playing guitar. The reason is simple, they may lose interest and you're out a boatload of money watching it gather dust in the corner.

Everybody here knows that there is far more to this style of shooting than just the gun. The cost of the gun is fixed, then you have the expenses of EVERYTHING else, and the learning curve that goes with it. With today's lasers and CNC machines, even low cost guns are pretty damn accurate. In the hands of a new person, they make excellent pieces as part of the learning curve.

The real expenses are on going and that's ammunition, range fees, (if applicable) and eventually reloading. Learning a witch's brew isn't going to be cost effective if you don't already know the intricacies of reloading. Those expenses never end. Hundreds, if not thousands of dollars can easily be spent chasing down that perfect load, and it always changes. The effects of wind, humidity have to be learned, and that means burning up ammunition to do so, lots of ammunition.

One has to learn to crawl before walking and then running. Don't direct them to running shoes when they aren't ready and for God's sake, LISTEN to what they have for a budget and stay within that budget because we all know that is only the beginning of the expenses.
 
My MO has always been to try and treat people the way Id want to be treated.
I started this game with a budget factory rifle and man it sure evolved quickly after the first season of shooting....but you need to start somewhere with something affordable to know if its for you.
This is my suggestion to a new shooter... bring what ya got and see how you like it before spending any money if possible.
 
Anyway, we can legally and responsibly expand the shooting sports and share our knowledge to aid other shooters to be the best that they can be is a good thing. Good work.

Personally, I constantly struggle helping shooters learn to shoot because of all the "expert" advice they read on the net. Many want to start at the top of the game rather than first mastering the fundamentals then working their way up the ladder. But such is our world today. We want instant results by buying it rather than paying the price of leaning and training. I witness this in over 30 years of NRA precision pistol competition.
 
Couple years ago I was at the range on a Sunday morning(200,300 yard lines open). A family group came in, I was shooting from 300, they wanted to shoot from 200 so I told them I would setup with them. They brought out a couple AR's and 10/22's( age range 10-60 ish). I had my TC Icon(30TC) suppressed, practice for elk season. I noticed the oldest(a woman) wasn't shooting. I started talking to her behind the benches, asked her if she wanted to take a shot at the plates. She joked and said maybe she should since the others weren't hitting any targets. I was setup about 20' feet away, prone,bipod/bag. I asked her if I should move to a bench, she said no. So over we went. I got her positioned with the rifle, had her take a couple dry fire shots(I had the rifle on the 4" plate). Soon several from the family came over, they asked what plate. She said the middle one(2,4,6"). I had told her the rifle was hot after loading a round, center hold on the plate. Pop, bang. She turned looked at the ones watching, said what's so hard hitting the targets? They didn't say anything. We had a laugh as they returned to the benches.
 
I've been shooting AR's & pistols in tactical training for a very long time. I reload all my own ammo as well. I'm no beginner by any means. A few months ago I decided to investigate bolt guns and training on them with the idea what I learned from them would help my AR shooting. I've owned inexpensive guns and uber expensive ones and quickly learned it's easy to spend a lot of money on guns that you just don't bond with. Same with my guitars and amps. Lord I wish I had some of that money back!

I did a tremendous amount of research on bolt guns and settled on a Savage Axis II Precision. They have a very good reputation for accuracy and reliability. I installed a Vortex 5x25 scope, total investment less than $1500.00, and went shooting. I was pretty amazed at how much different this style of shooting is. So I started doing more research, and made the mistake of posting about my purchase on another site.

The responses were immediate and vicious. They made negative comments about how horrible the gun was, how I needed to spend $5k on a custom built gun or I wasn't serious. The list of their comments only got worse and more obscene. I'm not the kind of guy who takes shit and doesn't respond, and I did. A firefight ensued when the bottom feeding pieces of human debris came out of their momma's basements and chimed in. I'm no longer on that site, and to be honest, I've learned far more here than I ever did there.

My point is this as a newcomer. Don't talk over the heads of those showing an interest. Don't direct them to dream guns most can't afford, or are unwilling to spend as a newbie. Drop the "buy once, cry once" mentality. Only a fool parent would buy their child a $4K Gibson Les Paul and spend another $4K on an amp for a child showing an interest in playing guitar. The reason is simple, they may lose interest and you're out a boatload of money watching it gather dust in the corner.

Everybody here knows that there is far more to this style of shooting than just the gun. The cost of the gun is fixed, then you have the expenses of EVERYTHING else, and the learning curve that goes with it. With today's lasers and CNC machines, even low cost guns are pretty damn accurate. In the hands of a new person, they make excellent pieces as part of the learning curve.

The real expenses are on going and that's ammunition, range fees, (if applicable) and eventually reloading. Learning a witch's brew isn't going to be cost effective if you don't already know the intricacies of reloading. Those expenses never end. Hundreds, if not thousands of dollars can easily be spent chasing down that perfect load, and it always changes. The effects of wind, humidity have to be learned, and that means burning up ammunition to do so, lots of ammunition.

One has to learn to crawl before walking and then running. Don't direct them to running shoes when they aren't ready and for God's sake, LISTEN to what they have for a budget and stay within that budget because we all know that is only the beginning of the expenses.
O trust me I know about costs. Ive ofthen made the joke about alot of my set ups that most of y'all's scope rings or bases cost more then one of my entire rigs :D and no I'm not joking at all honestly
The one everyone loved and was fawning over ?
Mossberg patriot.243 . Think it was $400 new bone stock. After market boyds pro varmit stock, $200 shipped ,I modified a lil in the grip and added $20 kydex cheek riser . Scope is a monstrum hornet to which is like a $200 scope I got with a coupon code for $150 ,rings are monstrum too and where like $20, bipod is a cvlife harris knock off 9-13, $30 , shooting serria TMK's in starline brass. Grouping lie this @100yd. That around ....what $800 for the whole rig lol.:D
IMG_20240416_143907132.jpgIMG_20240419_211802865.jpg
My other one was my 5.56 patriot Varmint bone stock except for the edge rail and vortex scope along with the bipod, another $700 rig ,it's 3/4 MOA all day and they loved how it just pain didn't recoil at all and just hit whatever
IMG_20240111_163518611.jpg
O and then my grendel when I kept telling them how I have like $200 into the upper and built it in like 45 min .
IMG_20240319_171319460.jpg

Yeah .post if the time I'm shooting with people who are 16-20 something and being 26 myself I completely understand most people in my age group just cant afford a $20/ rig, HECK a $1200 rig is out of lot of our budgets !! And with FB and similar full of so many people saying you need to have navy seal teair best of the best level gear if your going to own anything, even if it's just to plink.....yeah I try to r lax folks and show them " nah homie". Have had more then a few tell me how they where gonna go get one of those fancy carbine set ups with eo tech and lasers and all because they thought you need to have the best....then they shoot one of mine and realized " hay all I want to do is shoot coyotes and this is PERFECT! AND CHEAPER!"

The amount of folks who just buys something without thinking of their needs and use case just because someone they consider an expert said so is a bit annoying at times. Most don't know any better though so can't be mad at them .Anyhow I'm rambling now lol
 
I hear shooters bitch all the time about lack of attendance at matches. Here is an idea. Instead of being all wrapped up in yourself, how about actually promoting what you are doing instead of giving it lip service.

Yep the amount of people who are just pricks is unbelievable. Like why ? What's the point.
I've had a lot of people bring their Gf or little siblings to me because they had bad experiences getting talked down to by other shooters. And you can always see how happy they are when someone talks to them like their not stupid and actually tries to educate a little and not thump their own chest for 20min.
Side tangent, also the whole thing with people thinking they need to be pricks to toughen up a new shooter or something....stop...just stop I know people think that's "fixing" snowflake trophy award woke culture or something,but it's not, it's really not you just coming off as that prick old fuss boomer at the range and your turning people away from shooting. You don't need to coddle and whisper sweet nothing into a new shooters ear like a loving mother goose but trying to talk down to someone just no. Yeah you might get that one kid that it works on but he might be what...1 outta five ?
Being a Mr. Rodger or Bob Ross type helps a HECK of a lot more then then they of be R.Lee Ermy to everyone you talk to .
 
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I had the same good thing happen this week.
My neighbor asked to go to a Range and shoot my Rifle at 600 yards? My neighbor is a PHD not a shooter.
I took Him out with my 6 Norma Dasher and Equipment.
We set up my E-Target and a Prone shooting spot. I showed Him all basic things ( 2 stage Trigger was difficult). I shot a few round to zero and let Him get the Idea.
I got Him back behind the Rifle and a few more dry fires. I said will will go 10 for record 2 sighters.
2 X's sighters-98-5 first Record. Cool down picture time. You want to do it again ? Yes... Wind Changing !!!
2 -9's sighters out the left , I said think you need some right wind. 2nd record 98-3.
I told Him you can have all this type equipment for around $11,000. Tell your Wife your Very Interested .
Don't drop my name.
 
I sshoot at a public range. Some days I just leave because it is too dangerous. However, most of what I shoot are varmint rigs, BR guns, or esoteric stuff from 100+ years ago. Every time I shoot with the BR guns, lay out the flags etc, I get questions. I sometimes offer people the opportunity to shoot. My general approach is to take a bit of time watching them shoot, and evaluating the skill set and then when they start asking I start where they are and try to take it only one step up from where they are at. Sometimes that means helping them tighten a scope or use a rest...I lend mine. Or it may mean getting them on paper before they endanger our ammunition supply. Sometimes it means discussing reloading practices.

On Thursday a nice Vietnam vet was shooting next to me and when seeing I had some experience with reloading, he began asking honest and vulnerable questions. His experience with turning 30-06 brass into 25-06, then neck sizing only thru some 22 reloads made the hair on my neck stand up. But I was able to help him see that his brass life money savings had nearly cost him an eye and had already eroded his bolt face. The cool thing was he took advice and was not at all embarassed by me. he was on his way to buying new Starline brass and leaving behind his
penny wise, pound foolish" approach.

Heck of a nice guy too.
 

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