PTG Rem 700 SA bottom metal that uses AR 15 mag

[mpickle]

PTG has a new bottom metal for SA Rem 700's. Does anyone have first hand knowledge or has anyone actually seen one.
The reason I am asking, I ordered one and received it today. I am really impressed with the looks, finish and quality of it. It fit several REM and a Boyd stock with very little stock work.
However, PTG states that the bottom metal unit is designed to use the 'C Products' magazines. I purchased the unit with a 5 round 'C Product's' magazine. When I tried to remove the magazine from the bottom metal it was extremely hard to remove, I mean extremely hard to remove. I had to push from the top and pull from the bottom of the magazine to get it out of the action. The magazine locked in as it should.
Because it was stated by PTG, that the bottom metal was designed around the C Products magazine, I tried several different brands of magazines, none would lock in and all were very tight.
This is NOT any attempt at trashing PTG or any of their products, just trying to find out if my experience is typical or what.
I intend to call PTG tomorrow and speak with their tech support.
Thanks for your assistance.
Mpickle

 

[OIF/OEF]

I wonder if that new bottom metal will fit the Choate Tactical stocks. I think the only ones that bolt right up to it is the Badger system and they are kinda spendy and not easy to find in stock sometimes.

Very Respectfully

 

[mpickle]

I don't know about the Choate Stock,but it fits a Remington/Boyd stocks like a glove.

 

[jonbearman]

Try loosening one bedding screw to make sure it isn't flexing out of shape?

 

[Lightload]

I've been playing with mine for a couple days now. It dropped into my HS Precision stock like a glove....BUT....I did have a problem with feeding.

First, let's go back to the magazine. I ordered the five round (which is the same size as the ten round) and it fit waaaaay too tight in the magazine well. I was thinking there for awhile that it was frozen in place from sitting outside after the delivery guy dropped it off. After quite a tussle and a lot of two-handed pulling, I finally got it out. The fit is ridiculously tight! I knew I was blowing the warranty but as far as I'm concerned, the unit is unusable the way it is so I took a mill file to it. I filed off the high points inside the mag well until the mag was a smooth fit. The mag won't fall out when you press the mag release but now it doesn't take much to pull it out.

Also, I had to remove some material from the inside of the stock mortise to give the magazine catch room to move out to the side and release the magazine. No biggy here.

So with the mag fitting in the well properly, I installed the unit in the stock. A loaded mag was inserted into the well and I closed the bolt. First round chambered correctly.....second round, bolt passed over the cartridge. Repeated tries and the same thing would happen.

The pillars under the bottom metal on my HS stock protrude a bit above the stock material so I used my dremel to remove some of the pillar under the rear action screw so the ptg unit would sit a little higher in the stock. Re-installed the unit and inserted a loaded mag. The mag didn't want to latch in place. I smacked it with the butt of my hand and it locked. Feeding was now flawless.

I don't like the way the mag latches into the mag well now. It takes that smack to get it to latch and even then I think it's holding on by only a fingernail. I'm going to try sanding down the thickness of the lips a little so the mag can go up into the mag well just a little bit farther. That may be just enough so that the mag will "click" into place. Ultimately, it may take milling the bottom of the receiver a bit to get the needed clearance....dunno.

I can't say that I'm overjoyed with this unit. Why they have that mag fitting so tightly is beyond me!

 

[fredhorace77]

Tag

 

[dtucker]

I have bought many products from PTG and they make great stuff and all i have used from them worked flawlessly. I am just not sold on why you would want to use AR mags in your bolt gun. The only advantage i see if 1 is set up running perfect is that the mags would be cheaper to purchase.

 

[Exocet]

I was just reading on another forum that the PTG mag adapter requires the underside of the receiver to be milled slightly to allow proper feeding and function.

Sounds like its not truly drop in. Also sounds like you will be stuck with that bottom metal if you choose to mill the receiver bottom as it will no longer feed correctly with standard bottom metal.

The poster also said that polymer PMags will not work in it. Too tight.

Can you confirm any of the above?

 

[Lightload]

The lips are too thick on the PMAGS. They will not work.

 

[fredhorace77]

I have bought many products from PTG and they make great stuff and all i have used from them worked flawlessly. I am just not sold on why you would want to use AR mags in your bolt gun. The only advantage i see if 1 is set up running perfect is that the mags would be cheaper to purchase.

cheaper to purchase, a wide variety of capacity, plus my AR and bolt gun love the same exact 60gr.vmax load so i could grab a mag and use it for either gun. On top of that i have 6 different loads i use often out of my bolt gun, a subsonic trail boss load, a super sonic trail boss load, a pdog load, coyote load, and a hog load, then finally a deer load. it would be nice to have these rounds already inside of a mag so i can grab and go. if i did this with my cz 527, the mags alone would cost me over $250

 

[Dans40X]

Modify the least expensive piece in the equation-stock,bottom metal &/or magazine for proper function.

Bastardizing the receiver to accomplish the task is......asinine!

 

[mpickle]

I have been working and did not have time to call PTG about this issue.

Last night and tonight I have been inserting and removing a tight fitting 30 round mag ( it is easier to grasp). I have also followed Lightload's procedures and find that now I can, after working with the bottom metal and 30 round mag, that I can lock any mag that I own into the bottom metal, the mag must be 'slapped' in place. Thirty rounders slip in and out with little effort and short mags seem to require more effort to remove, possibly due to my hands being to large to grasp the short mags.

I believe that with use the tight mag issue will go away and hopefully so will the 'slapping' of the mags to lock them in place.

I agree with Dans40x, always modify the least expensive items first.

As an after thought, I have gotten 300 BO, 17 Rem, 222 Rem and 223 Rem to feed through the bottom metal.

Thanks for all the excellent advice and suggestions.
Macon Pickle

 

[fredhorace77]

i called ptg and sent an email link of this thread. when i inquired about the problem, they stated its a problem associated with the new batch of magazines they received. she stated that they are recommending that you sand the bottom metal magazine opening to help relieve some material to allow the mag to insert and remove freely. i personally think a product should not need sanding like this, she claims she was going to notifiy a higher up of this thread and they will reply with a post on the outcome.

 

[Lightload]

PTG added pics to their website and provided measurements for opening up your receiver so the mags will fit. Nothing was said about the tightness of the mag fit in the well. ............................

I've been playing with mine and it works fine now but it did take some work. If you get one of these, I think it's safe to say that you will need to work on both the magazine and the magazine well and you shouldn't expect just any AR mag to fit. Forget polymer.....the lips are just too thick and if you trimmed them down enough to fit I think they'd be too weak to hold the cartridges properly.

To get the mags to fit, I removed material from inside the mag well, mostly from the two ridges that run up the back of the well. To a lesser extent, I took metal off the ridges in the front of the well. This is an easy job, just run the mag in and out a bit until you see the wear marks inside the well. File off those wear marks and then cover the shiny spots with black marking pen. Re-insert the mag and then again file off the shiny spots. Repeat until the mag fits the way you want it to.

My receiver just barely allowed the mag to seat in the mag well far enough for proper feeding. Also, the mag catch was latching on the magazine by just a whisker. It was holding but not by much. Two alterations were made to the magazine to make it work better. First, the lips of the magazine were ground down which allowed the mag to go up into the well just a little bit further. Second, I used a pair of needle nosed pliers and bent the latching surface of the magazine catch notch on the magazine out just a little bit. Now the magazine latches firmly and the cartridges feed perfectly.

This is a good unit.....it just takes a little "playing with" to get it to work properly.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Interesting topic. Have any of you looked at the Mossberg MVP bolt action rifle line? They feed from AR15 mags, but the difference is that the bolt face has a piece that drops down from the bottom to properly feed from the AR15 mag. Wonder if PTG has any bolt mod ideas like that in the work?

 

[earl@pacifictoolandguage]

Hello everybody that has participated in this discussion. My name is Earl and I'm the designer and machinist that built this item. Out of all the bottom metal I've designed over the past 6 years here at Pacific Tool and Gauge, this has been my most challenging and most rewarding. I am so sorry that you out there that got one of my first run bottom metal conversions has run into so many problems. First I didn't anticipate the differences in the magazine size from one shipment to the next. I made the pocket tight so the shells would feed just right and work every time on my model 700. I take every new build on as a personal endeavor and live it until it's finished. We are on our second build now on this item and all it took was to open up the mag pocket .005. Now all the magazines we have in stock fit nice. If any of you out there have a problem with your magazine feeding properly or need any help getting yours to work properly, we will do it for you at no cost. Just contact our sales staff to get shipping instructions. Or if you will call me personally I will endeavor to help you over the phone. So far I'm at a 100 percent and those that I've helped are now happy with the product. I'm out in the shop every day working on our latest new build, so if you can't get right to me I will return your call within 24 hours. Thank you everyone for your input and patience.

 

[dfletcher]

PTG has a new bottom metal for SA Rem 700's. Does anyone have first hand knowledge or has anyone actually seen one.

The reason I am asking, I ordered one and received it today. I am really impressed with the looks, finish and quality of it. It fit several REM and a Boyd stock with very little stock work.
However, PTG states that the bottom metal unit is designed to use the 'C Products' magazines. I purchased the unit with a 5 round 'C Product's' magazine. When I tried to remove the magazine from the bottom metal it was extremely hard to remove, I mean extremely hard to remove. I had to push from the top and pull from the bottom of the magazine to get it out of the action. The magazine locked in as it should.

Because it was stated by PTG, that the bottom metal was designed around the C Products magazine, I tried several different brands of magazines, none would lock in and all were very tight.
This is NOT any attempt at trashing PTG or any of their products, just trying to find out if my experience is typical or what.

I intend to call PTG tomorrow and speak with their tech support.

Thanks for your assistance.
Mpickle

This is my 1st post and I hope it's helpful. I've bought a fair amount of PTG products and was always satisfied, bought the PTG "AR 15" mag bottom metal and had an issue similar to yours. As it happens I'm in NorCal but for about 20 years visit southern Oregon (friends in Grants Pass, Merlin area) especially on the holiday weekends. PTG is in White City, OR. When I called and recounted what happened, told them I'd be in the area, they invited me to stop by their shop. As promised they did some work on the rifle and now it feeds perfectly. I'm very happy with the result.

My rifle started life as a heavy barreled 700 Tactical in 300 AAC, HS Precision stock with aluminum insert & posts. A local CA gunsmith reworked it, turned it into a 6X45/222 with a McGowen heavy barrel. Although not a 5.56, each cartridge uses the 5.56 bolt/bolt face and, especially the 6X45, similar body taper & shoulder. PTG's fix worked for me and should work with any 5.56 Remington 700 SA rifle that doesn't now work in "drop in" mode.

Similar to yours, my issue was that the top of the AR magazine feed lips "bottomed out" on the underside of the receiver rails, mostly to the rear of the receiver. Mag seating was especially tight. The fix was machining the underside of the receiver rails at an angle (beveled) allowing the mag to seat deeper & sit higher, enough so that the bolt face reliably picked up and fed the rounds. In addition to beveling the underside of the receiver PTG dressed down the stock pillars allowing the unit to sit deeper and again, get the rounds up higher for certain pick up by the bolt. Obviously doing this made seating the mag a bit easier, a little more "wiggle room".

The machining isn't visible when the rifle is assembled, nor can it be seen with the bolt open and looking from above. The top of the rails remain unchanged - the work is very difficult to spot even from below too. It didn't affect function when the factory bottom metal & follower is put back in, so reverting to factory standard isn't an issue.

I have a tendency to go easy working a bolt on a round I reload for, found that working it fast was best. After the work was done they cycled a few sets of about a dozen rounds through it very fast and it functioned perfectly.

I'm a pretty good judge of what I can do by hand or what I ought to avoid. Took me only about 40 years of trying & some fantasic screw ups, but I learned my limitations. I can get the end result with a dremel of what PTG did with their machinery BUT - it sure wouldn't look nearly as nice, be as uniform or precise and it would take a heck of alot longer. The work is more difficult than fitting a 1911 thumb or grip safety by a bit. I think a gunsmith would be able to do the modification clean & neat & precise.

The challenge beveling the underside of the receiver rails and fitting, it seems to me, is getting the mag to sit high enough to pick up rounds but not so high the bolt will hit the back of the magazine or magazine feed lip when moving forward. If that happens shimming the pillars will correct the situation. Doing it "just right" also means a good, tight fit rather than sloppy and loose.

CProducts/ASC magazines worked fine for me, Lancers and the 60/100 round Surefires did too. Most of the metal mags worked fine. I tried some plastic mags (PMag) and while they fit the magwell the thicker feed lips wouldn't let the bolt move forward. I'll stick with metal.

I guess the summary is that while maybe not a "drop in" for all there is a relatively easy fix available. They helped me and were happy to do so. PTG told me how they did it, the angles and resulting measurements but to be honest much of that info is lost on me. I don't speak "machinist" as well as I speak "customer" wanting help. I suppose for those who know about such things the technical conversation would be easy. Knowing what I know now I'd buy another and be comfortable that if it didn't work as drop in it can readily be made to work.

Obviously being able to go there doesn't work for everyone, but if someone has this set up and an issue my suggestion is to give them a call, talk to the guys directly. They went well out of their way to help me, coming in on a Saturday morning & opening up the shop to do the work. My feeling is they did everything needed to make me happy.

Update: the below link shows the modification done to the rifle by PTG and includes specs.

http://shop.pacifictoolandgauge.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=308_4_90_95&products_id=3106

 

[fredhorace77]

hmm. modifying the action metal counts me out, on top of the fact that i use only pmags, well worth the effort, but hopefully soon someone will come out with a true genuine drop in bottom metal that will work with all ar-15 style mags.

 

[Lightload]

hmm. modifying the action metal counts me out, on top of the fact that i use only pmags, well worth the effort, but hopefully soon someone will come out with a true genuine drop in bottom metal that will work with all ar-15 style mags.

Ain't gonna happen!

The bottom of the 700 receiver is just a little bit too narrow to allow most AR mags to seat far enough into the mag well so that the bolt will reliably strip a cartridge from the mag.

You either need to open the bottom of the receiver or use only metal mags that will probably need to be fitted.

 

[dfletcher]

hmm. modifying the action metal counts me out, on top of the fact that i use only pmags, well worth the effort, but hopefully soon someone will come out with a true genuine drop in bottom metal that will work with all ar-15 style mags.

Ain't gonna happen!

The bottom of the 700 receiver is just a little bit too narrow to allow most AR mags to seat far enough into the mag well so that the bolt will reliably strip a cartridge from the mag.

You either need to open the bottom of the receiver or use only metal mags that will probably need to be fitted.

As an aside, I'd be interested to know if the true drop in approach will work with other bolt action rifles, in 5.56 or other calibers like 7.62X51 - Ruger 77, Savage, Win 70, Weatherby Vanguard/Howa, etc?

Edit - my mistake not being clear. I should have specified "AR 15" based magazine bottom metal. I've bought other PTG bottom metal that use AI style magazines. Their unit replacing the Ruger GSR factory is a great upgrade.