Proper sizing die question.

[walley2960]

Chamber vs Brass vs Die dimenions???



My question is this.....

When preparing/procuring components for a new build what is the best way to ensure compatibility of the brass, chamber, sizer relationship.

For example...
Buy blank of choice
Buy brass and bullets
Make dummy round and send to reamer maker
Chamber barrel
Fire a few pieces of brass (3 times each?) neck size only?
send dummy rounds made from this fired brass to custom die maker.

I will be building a couple of 6.5x47 lapua rifles. Nothing exotic, no turn neck, throated for 130 class bullets.



In the past I have used many redding bushing dies and am considering a custom bushing or F.L. die instead.
Also considered the bushing die may be better as when going that route I can avoid sizing the area where the potential doughnut would develop.

I appreciate the wealth of knowledge on this forum and understand that a properly asked question is essential for good answers. If clarification is needed I will do my best. If anyone can chime in with advice in this/these areas I would be grateful!

Thanks in advance
Wally

 

[spclark]

As this project includes nothing particularly exotic or outside the box, what's your prior experience been with Redding dies as to 'work fine / have issues'?

I'd contact PT&G for their thoughts on a reamer, then avoid the time & expense of a custom die (set?) by choosing off-the-shelf stuff. They've worked for my needs since I took up this passtime years ago save for my taking up with 6.5 Grendel after finding the only available-then dies severly overworked my brass.

So I went with custom ordered from Neil Jones. He makes a fine product with custom bushings sized to your specs that include the shoulder profile portion so entire neck gets sized if you set it to contact shoulder at all.

 

[riverwolf1]

If your looking at a custom die that won't break the bank, and great service, I would consider calling Harrells Precision in Va. They make a die matched to your brass, Full length sizing, that utilizes a bushing and the turn around time is about a week and a half! Heres the best part the die is $75.00! You need to send them 3 pieces of fired brass from your gun, and you will get 2 pieces back. Your die will be shipped with an invoice, you just send them a check!

 

[BoydAllen]

Another approach is to start with the die, size fired cases, measure them, add desired clearances, and order a chamber reamer that will have a custom fit to the die. Use cases that have seen a lot of use and at are at maximum work hardening because they will come out of the die bigger than fresh brass because of the increase in spring back that goes with work hardening. I have taken this approach on a number of projects, including starting with a one piece die, for a tight neck chamber. If you get the details right, it works very well, and saves quite a bit over a custom die.

 

[chkunz]

Chamber vs Brass vs Die dimenions???



My question is this.....

When preparing/procuring components for a new build what is the best way to ensure compatibility of the brass, chamber, sizer relationship.

For example...
Buy blank of choice
Buy brass and bullets
Make dummy round and send to reamer maker
Chamber barrel
Fire a few pieces of brass (3 times each?) neck size only?
send dummy rounds made from this fired brass to custom die maker.

I will be building a could of 6.5x47 lapua rifles. Nothing exotic, no turn neck, throated for 130 class bullets.



In the past I have used many redding bushing dies and am considering a custom bushing or F.L. die instead.
Also considered the bushing die may be better as when going that route I can avoid sizing the area where the potential doughnut would develop.

I appreciate the wealth of knowledge on this forum and understand that a properly asked question is essential for good answers. If clarification is needed I will do my best. If anyone can chime in with advice in this/these areas I would be grateful!

Thanks in advance
Wally

It might be helpful to say what the application is for these rifle builds and what are your expectations for accuracy. You did say nothing exotic but you could expand on that somewhat. That information may provide you with better answers.

 

[mikecr]

Walley, this is me;
I wouldn't make & send any 'dummy rounds' to a reamer maker.
I'd just measure several hundred cases(fully) in lot/multi-lot and decide what I have and want to make of my cartridge. I Fill out the reamer prints & email with reamer set order(rough/finish/sizing).

Again, no dummy rounds are needed for a fitted die. Just send FF'd/unsized cases to the die maker.
I like JLC precision for body-bushing dies. He makes them perfectly/inexpensively from whatever brass I send him, and he doesn't even use sizing reamers to do it.
I don't use a bushing or do neck sizing with JLC dies(while I'm sure they're fine). I like Wilson inline dies for that, and send Wilson bushing and seating blanks to be finished(chambered) with my barrel blanks.

I would not have or use any die that FL sizes necks. As you mentioned this serves only to bring donut into tension. And I would not be talked into use of someone else's reamers. Hold your own reamers/prints for future use & revisions(doesn't cost much).
You won't usually need separate rough & sizing reamers for your chamber. Good gun machinists simply drill and finish chambers/dies/gizzys. Your die maker might need a sizing reamer to get what you want, depending on your cartridge. For sure, you should control sizing as much as anything else. Don't be talked into departure from your control.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Give whidden a try.

 

[walley2960]

Chamber vs Brass vs Die dimenions???



My question is this.....

When preparing/procuring components for a new build what is the best way to ensure compatibility of the brass, chamber, sizer relationship.

For example...
Buy blank of choice
Buy brass and bullets
Make dummy round and send to reamer maker
Chamber barrel
Fire a few pieces of brass (3 times each?) neck size only?
send dummy rounds made from this fired brass to custom die maker.

I will be building a could of 6.5x47 lapua rifles. Nothing exotic, no turn neck, throated for 130 class bullets.



In the past I have used many redding bushing dies and am considering a custom bushing or F.L. die instead.
Also considered the bushing die may be better as when going that route I can avoid sizing the area where the potential doughnut would develop.

I appreciate the wealth of knowledge on this forum and understand that a properly asked question is essential for good answers. If clarification is needed I will do my best. If anyone can chime in with advice in this/these areas I would be grateful!

Thanks in advance
Wally

It might be helpful to say what the application is for these rifle builds and what are your expectations for accuracy. You did say nothing exotic but you could expand on that somewhat. That information may provide you with better answers.

The application for these rifles will be shooting precision steel matches, plinking at known and unknown distance targets, hunting, and shooting "small" groups from a setup capable of feeding from a magazine. My desire is to have the most accuracy possible while avoiding extensive case prep. The large number of cases in rotation coupled with limited time has me seeking a setup that I can simply size, charge, seat, and shoot.

As this project includes nothing particularly exotic or outside the box, what's your prior experience been with Redding dies as to 'work fine / have issues'?

I'd contact PT&G for their thoughts on a reamer, then avoid the time & expense of a custom die (set?) by choosing off-the-shelf stuff. They've worked for my needs since I took up this passtime years ago save for my taking up with 6.5 Grendel after finding the only available-then dies severly overworked my brass.

So I went with custom ordered from Neil Jones. He makes a fine product with custom bushings sized to your specs that include the shoulder profile portion so entire neck gets sized if you set it to contact shoulder at all.

My experience with the full length Redding bushing dies has been good until the last chambers I had cut. I asked PTG to grind a reamer for a .243 that I would be using Win. brass in. The result was a chamber that was tighter around the .200 line then my bushing die would size properly. After a few firings I was getting a "click" at the top of bolt lift. My wish is to avoid that situation in the future, as well as not working the brass more than is nessasary.

Another approach is to start with the die, size fired cases, measure them, add desired clearances, and order a chamber reamer that will have a custom fit to the die. Use cases that have seen a lot of use and at are at maximum work hardening because they will come out of the die bigger than fresh brass because of the increase in spring back that goes with work hardening. I have taken this approach on a number of projects, including starting with a one piece die, for a tight neck chamber. If you get the details right, it works very well, and saves quite a bit over a custom die.

Boyd
Unfortunately although I have a Redding type s full length bushing die set including a seater. I don't have any fired/work hardened cases. I'm not sure what additional clearances would be most desirable for my application. Additionally I'm not comfortable that my measuring skills are up to the task.

I was under the impression that a dummy round would help a reamer maker provide a reamer with a baseline for lead, throat, freebore, as well as brass body and neck dimensions.

As always the info you gentlemen share here is appreciated very much! !

Thanks to all, Wally

 

[lpreddick]

i went this route recently and heeded the advice from this forum. i modified a 222 rem mag to a 6x47...a one time benchrest winner. after 3 weeks of talking to several people at a well known reamer manufacturer, and getting no where(i understand recreational pot is commonplace in that state and i really thought i was talking to a person during his/her work break) , i took the advice offered and called JGS and described my project. i had the reamer print in 3 DAYS!!! as suggested, i sent the reamer print to whidden gunworks and ordered a custom set: type S FL neck bushing die and microseater. a bit more expensive this way. the reamer cut like hot knife thru butter. the dies are works of precision. two seater stems and a bump gauge based on my case's 30 degree shoulder were included. this is a perfect match of chamber, brass and dies and resizing fired brass doesn't get any better!

 

[butchlambert]

Is there a die that actually full length sizes a neck?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Neil jones fl dies use a combo bushing and neck bump insert that does butch

 

[spclark]

Neil jones fl dies use a combo bushing and neck bump insert that does butch

Yep and he offers them in a range of sizes if you need 'em. I think a custom die comes with two with extras at additional charge.

D. Tubb's 6XC sizing die featured this style of bushing design too. Came with two sizes and a third meant to be used as a 'bump' gauge. I found that to be ideal for forming up 6XC cases using Lapua Palma brass before taking necks down to final diameter.

 

[mikecr]

Tubb's 6XC shoulder gizzy was the only thing I found usable & useful in his die set -for my T2000..
A JLC die fixed that too.