Proper Diameter Cleaning Rod & Surface Treatment

[Phil3]

From what I read here, Ivy cleaning rods seem to be a favorite, and will go with that...once I am over my fear of uncoated steel against barrel steel...

I need a rod for a 6mm. I see Ivy rods are available in .203" and .234" diameter. The larger would JUST fit inside a 6mm (.236" - .237" bore), but am guessing that is too close. ??? If so, then I guess it will be the .203" rod, and then another rod in .234" for the 6.5x47 I am building.

Help me also understand how steel on steel is OK (assuming rod bows in bore). I know the rod is slick, but still, this just not seem like a good idea. I will be using a Lucas bore guide.

Thanks.

Phil

 

[butchlambert]

Phil,
How will it bow in the bore if you have a good cleaning rod guide. Your bend will be before or in front of your rod guide. Only rod I would worry about would be a coated rod that becomes embedded with trash from cleaning or the gawd awful carbon fiber rods. Ivy rods for me only.
Oh, get a barrel stub, with a piece of cleaning rod still, and sit in front of your TV and rub it in and out a few thousand times. Measure the wear and tell us what you discovered.

 

[L.Sherm]

The thing that will hurt your barrel more than anything is if your rod Diameter were your brush threads on to is not the same and you have a lip sticking up it will scare your lands especially a 20 or 22 cal. The bigger the bore not so much of an issue. At X-Caliber when we lap our barrels we sand the rod and brush junction so there is no sharp edge.

 

[Phil3]

Butch,

Is it not possible that with a tight fitting patch, the rod will bow between the end of the guide and the patch. Depending on the barrel length, that could be two feet or more. I have a Tipton (which I know you hate), and have not felt anything embedded in it. I have one that is clearly not straight and will not be using Tiptons again for that reason alone.

Phil

 

[savagedasher]

If you pull it with a guide it wouldn't bend . Pushing is another story . The clearance on some rods are .030 clearence . Yes they will bend. Many of barrels have more bend then that. Keep them clean and don't worry .
Larry

 

[butchlambert]

Think about it. The patch will center your cleaning rod on one end and the guide on the other.

 

[LHSmith]

The idea is to use the proper size patch, i.e. patch thickness and size, with the jag you intend to use. Likewise with the brush. Even a brand new, high quality brush of the given caliber, should not give enough resistance to cause a rod to bend......saturate the brush before entry, and re-saturate every few passes. Also saturate the patch well. I see way too many shooters fight the rod through because they have the wrong size jag/patch combo, or use a brush that's barely wet.
Early on, I used to struggle getting a patch thru the bore...I first cut my own patches...then went to buying whatever Walmart had. After getting schooled in the proper cleaning regimen, I took my mentors advice and bought quality patches by Pro-Shot in bulk.......no more rods hanging up in the bore.

 

[savagedasher]

A

Think about it. The patch will center your cleaning rod on one end and the guide on the other.

Their is nothing you can do the rod is always going to touch the barrel when cleaning.! Larry

 

[Phil3]

The idea is to use the proper size patch, i.e. patch thickness and size, with the jag you intend to use. Likewise with the brush. Even a brand new, high quality brush of the given caliber, should not give enough resistance to cause a rod to bend......saturate the brush before entry, and re-saturate every few passes. Also saturate the patch well. I see way too many shooters fight the rod through because they have the wrong size jag/patch combo, or use a brush that's barely wet.
Early on, I used to struggle getting a patch thru the bore...I first cut my own patches...then went to buying whatever Walmart had. After getting schooled in the proper cleaning regimen, I took my mentors advice and bought quality patches by Pro-Shot in bulk.......no more rods hanging up in the bore.

OK. From my limited experience, getting the rod/patch down the bore was always a fight in my Krieger 223 AR15. I used 22 sized patches and just waaaay too big, even name brand ones. I made my own but will try Pro-Shot. I had no idea the resistance to rod movement was low enough to not trigger rod bending. This was why what Butch said made no sense to me. Push hard enough, and it WILL bend, even over a short distance between jag/patch and bore guide end.

Phil

 

[butchlambert]

OK. From my limited experience, getting the rod/patch down the bore was always a fight in my Krieger 223 AR15. I used 22 sized patches and just waaaay too big, even name brand ones. I made my own but will try Pro-Shot. I had no idea the resistance to rod movement was low enough to not trigger rod bending. This was why what Butch said made no sense to me. Push hard enough, and it WILL bend, even over a short distance between jag/patch and bore guide end.

Phil

Evidently as you say, you have the wrong size patches and what rod guide are you using with your AR if any.

 

[butchlambert]

A

Their is nothing you can do the rod is always going to touch the barrel when cleaning.! Larry

Come on savageguy, get a grip. Might be some rookie on here that might believe you. Now would you rather use a carbon fiber rod that is abrasive, a coated rod that has cleaning residue embedded in it, or a clean polished steel rod?

 

[Phil3]

Evidently as you say, you have the wrong size patches and what rod guide are you using with your AR if any.

As I said, "...I used 22 sized patches and just waaaay too big, even name brand ones...". The patches were NOT the wrong size, plainly evidenced by the package saying what it did (22). Could the packaging be wrong? Maybe, but on another brand of patches, the same problem. The jag was a name brand of some type that I can not recall. The jag that seem to present the least problems was the Parker-Hale style.

I use a Lucas bore guide with the AR.

 

[butchlambert]

As I said, "...I used 22 sized patches and just waaaay too big, even name brand ones...". The patches were NOT the wrong size, plainly evidenced by the package saying what it did (22). I use a Lucas bore guide with the AR.

Phil, Phil, Phil, you never pay attention to what the package says. It is just a guide and does work on most, but!! Different jags will use different patches. Sounds like you need a different diameter jag or cut your patches. A patch is made to apply solvent or mop it out. It should have very little resistance pushing it through.

 

[Joe Salt]

Bucth I've been using a 22 cal. coated rod with a small jag in my 30 cal for years. With the right size patches, I've never had a problem. And if you don't use a dry patch the first time you start cleaning. And I wipe the rod of when I pull it back out to put another patch on. Watched a friend behind me trying to put a 1 1/2" patch though his 30 cal. With a 30 cal rod with a large jag.I showed him how easy it was to put a 2 1/2" threw mine. I have never wanted a bigger size rod.

Joe Salt

 

[Phil3]

Phil, Phil, Phil, you never pay attention to what the package says. It is just a guide and does work on most, but!! Different jags will use different patches. Sounds like you need a different diameter jag or cut your patches. A patch is made to apply solvent or mop it out. It should have very little resistance pushing it through.

Butch,

If I don't go by what the product says it is, then how do I go about finding a jag/patch combo that fits? Just keep buying stuff in the hopes that something actually works? Sounds like actually believing what a manufactuer says is just too much to ask. I guess when it says "22 Cal", I really should not believe it. Really? With your comments, I have zero confidence that any jag or patch I might select will work. Hard to make informed buying decisions when the package description is just a "guide"! If you shoot or have shot a 22 cal, what do you use that works?

Phil

 

[savagedasher]

Think about it. The patch will center your cleaning rod on one end and the guide on the other.

When you pull the patch off would the rod not touch the bore when pulling it back?
As far as rods go I would prefer a harden steel .
Like I said the rod or the jag is going hit the bore . Keep it clean and don't worry.
As far as rod size they are for bore size .
Larry

 

[gotcha]

Just a bystander on this one but who's to say a steel rod can't become imbedded with trash also? .......... I carefully wipe my coated rods after each patch with paper towels until I no longer see any smut. If a jag or brush inadvertently pops through the muzzle, as it often does, I'd rather it dropped on the coating than bare steel........ Seems most of the above are theories rather than proven fact. However, I'm not too old to be open to change if facts are available........ Dragging a spring steel rod on a stainless bbl. just doesn't seem Kosher but I don't have any facts to prove or dis-prove either. Maybe some one can enlighten me.

 

[LHSmith]

If I don't go by what the product says it is, then how do I go about finding a jag/patch combo that fits? Just keep buying stuff in the hopes that something actually works? Sounds like actually believing what a manufactuer says is just too much to ask. I guess when it says "22 Cal", I really should not believe it. Really? With your comments, I have zero confidence that any jag or patch I might select will work. Hard to make informed buying decisions when the package description is just a "guide"! If you shoot or have shot a 22 cal, what do you use that works?

Phil

The better patch manufacturers list a recommended caliber range that the patches might work in. For instance the Pro-Shot's I use for .224 caliber are 1-1/8" square labeled .22 -.270 cal. They also offer 1" square labeled .22- .270 cal. I have also used Sinclair's 1-1/4" round with no problems. The jag is a .22 cal. Dewey pierce style. You can also control tightness of the patch using a pierce style by piercing the patch off center. Like you, I became really frustrated in the whole cleaning process until I learned how to do it correctly.

 

[timeout]

The better patch manufacturers list a recommended caliber range that the patches might work in. For instance the Pro-Shot's I use for .224 caliber are 1-1/8" square labeled .22 -.270 cal. They also offer 1" square labeled .22- .270 cal. I have also used Sinclair's 1-1/4" round with no problems. The jag is a .22 cal. Dewey pierce style. You can also control tightness of the patch using a pierce style by piercing the patch off center. Like you, I became really frustrated in the whole cleaning process until I learned how to do it correctly.

I agree with piercing off center or simply cut the patches to a size that will go down the bore with only a slight amount of effort. Don't worry about what the package says. Once you find the right size, order in bulk. I have not tried the Pro-Shot brand. I do use mostly Sinclair brand and like them. I'll give Pro-Shot a try sometime.

 

[Phil]

Ivy rods, Mike Lucas bore guides, Pro-Shot / cut Sinclair cleaning pads.


Phil.....