Promoting 1000 yd rifle tournaments ?

[NDAR15MAN]

First of all let me start out saying i have never shot in a 1000 yard rifle tournament , for that matter not even any rifle tournament. Just been starting in long range shooting at 57 years of age and joking this great forum a few months ago.
I am fortunate to have 1/2 dozen friends through out the U.S.A. That own some big farms that have property that would make a great spot to hold 1000 to 2000 yard rifle matches. Question. .... Do you think I could promote 1/2 dozen 1000 to 2000 yard shooting matches and be able to pay for electric targets. , expenses and prize money, etc and still
Make a small profit doing it ? Looking for a small business that I would enjoy when I retire. So many shooters would get into long range shooting if they just had a place to go and shoot. I know NRA promotes tournaments and it is a non for profit kind of thing but just wondering if rifle shooters would participate in this kind of thing ? Not looking to get rich just make a little extra income when I retire on something I think I would like too do. Martyd

 

[Mozella]

....... snip .... Do you think I could promote 1/2 dozen 1000 to 2000 yard shooting matches and be able to pay for electric targets. , expenses and prize money, etc and still
Make a small profit doing it ? ...... snip.......

Most likely this is a poor business model. Where I live there are at least five 600/1000 yard F-Class and BR matches each month within a 2.5 hour drive each month. Entry fees vary from $15 to $40. If I'm willing to drive 4 hours, there are many more matches available to me.

If you held a match near where I live, I might attend, but I seriously doubt if I would pay a high entry fee.

Most matches are run by a couple of club volunteers who work like dogs and usually don't even get time for lunch much less a free lunch. Plus they come out on non-match days to do maintenance. If you expect to be a paid match director, don't count on a lot of volunteer labor.

Matches are nearly always held on Sat or Sun and that means you will be scheduling your matches on days when clubs and other ranges hold their matches. What exactly would you offer which would entice shooters to attend your matches rather than the ones they go to already? Surely you won't be able to offer lower fees. And it won't be long before Caldwell or some other company contracts with a clever Chinese company to produce reasonably priced electronic targets and then everyone will have them.

I also know a few people who own property which would be perfect for long range shooting. But having a friend with property is NOT the same as convincing your friend that he should allow the public have access to it even for a picnic lunch. Add high powered guns to the request, and I think you may have a hard time finding free land on which to shoot, especially if the owner has a wife.

I really think trying to supplement your retirement by investing in electronic targets which you will use one day every two months is a deal breaker all by itself. Depending on which brand of target you purchase, you will need to collect around $150 per shooter per match if you amortize the targets over 5 years. That's a tough row to hoe and doesn't consider storage, transportation, target maintenance, shooting line construction costs, berm construction costs, professional staff salaries, insurance, advertising, etc.

It sounds to me like the old saying. "If you want to make a small fortune doing (fill in the blank with your favorite pastime), then start with a large fortune".

 

[DennisPA]

Liability, Liability, Liability sorry to say in the litigious society we live into day that's going to be the first hurtle. I shoot in the Ridgway VBR match in Ridgway PA, I pay $15 for my first gun and $5 for a second gun. We average about 120+ guns per match with 8 matches per year. Do that math conservatively say the club brings in 24k. I'm sure insurance takes a big chunk and Uncle Sam always has his hand in the till. I don't see the club making a profit any time soon. My main expense is hand loading for three plus guns, transportation 4+ hrs, lodging and food. The money that the club gets is small potatoes in my over all cost.

Now as a customer would I like to opportunity to shoot at 1 mile to 2k+ sure. Would I spend as much as I do for a match or more sure. Would I do it regularly NO! Shooting 1k competition and 2k competition are completely different setups. The little 6 Dashers that are doing well at 1k will never play at 2k. My average round count it 75 per match. At 2k 75 rounds of say 338 Lapua or bigger that's pain. Not just recoil but components and barrel wear. Sure comps can be set up with lower round counts but I don't know that I'm going to spend a whole day plus in travel to only shoot 20 shots.

If I may humbly make a suggestion! Having access to land is a huge benefit especially for us guys on the east coast. Shooting 1k besides at range is hard to do, 2k forget it. Now a long range safari type deal like Mike Groff does at http://www.ncovarmintexpress.com/ would be cool. I would be perfectly happy setting up steel or paper at 2k with a http://targetvisioncam.com/ type set up would be great. It would also be great practice for my 1k comps.
Put something to shoot out at 2k with 2 or more shooters and "competition" is sure to break out!

Please don't take my comments as negative I wish you the best of luck. Do I think there is a place in the shooting sports of 1k+ to 2k comps sure. Long range shooting isn't going to slow down any time soon. Everything is getting better the bullets, powder, optics. When under 3" groups are being shot at 1k longer ranges are soon going to be wanted. I just see current ranges adding on if they can since the infrastructure is already there.

Best of luck and if get something on the east coast anywhere near PA my family will be out to give it a try.

 

[billlarson]

"Most likely this is a poor business model"

+2

bill

 

[savagedasher]

"Most likely this is a poor business model"

+2

bill

I don't know your friends .
I would think the cost of insurance would way overide the entry Larry

 

[Sugar]

The location would make or break it. I know that down here in So. FL. it is frustrating to try and shoot at any of the public ranges. There are just too many people. However I have been to other ranges in the other states that were empty. If others can do it, why couldn't you?

 

[J-rod]

I live in Mechanicsville Virginia and would willingly pay $50-$75+ per day just to shoot at 1,000yds for 4-6h, 1 to 3 times a month...no match required.
I have said it before, being away from home for a 10-16h day just to shoot 40-60 rounds is not worth it to me.

Don't worry about the electronic targets now, just set up a range where people can hang steel/paper at 300 to 1,000 yds (more is even better!) 6 days a week and be able to shoot at either/any distance from the same shooting spot...aka do some load development then stretch it out at will.
As little free time as I have, as much money I have invested in shooting stuff and all the midnight oil I burn to make ammo...you could almost name your price and I would probably bite.

 

[Immike]

First of all let me start out saying i have never shot in a 1000 yard rifle tournament , for that matter not even any rifle tournament. Just been starting in long range shooting at 57 years of age and joking this great forum a few months ago.
I am fortunate to have 1/2 dozen friends through out the U.S.A. That own some big farms that have property that would make a great spot to hold 1000 to 2000 yard rifle matches. Question. .... Do you think I could promote 1/2 dozen 1000 to 2000 yard shooting matches and be able to pay for electric targets. , expenses and prize money, etc and still
Make a small profit doing it ? Looking for a small business that I would enjoy when I retire. So many shooters would get into long range shooting if they just had a place to go and shoot. I know NRA promotes tournaments and it is a non for profit kind of thing but just wondering if rifle shooters would participate in this kind of thing ? Not looking to get rich just make a little extra income when I retire on something I think I would like too do. Martyd

To make money you would have to start a club and collect dues. Matches are advertisement

 

[NDAR15MAN]

Thanks for the advice guys. Good points by all. But I think their is thousands people that have a lot of money tied up in long range shooting equipment and really no place to shoot over 200 yards. I think there would be more then enough shooters willing to pay for the privilege to shoot 1000 yards. I think I should change my thinking , do not promote shooting matches but weekend target shooting at certain farms and ranches at $100.00 per shooter for 5 or 6 hours of shooting time. All target cameras , no wasting time walking and checking targets. I think I am going to start my business plan and see what the numbers show to make it profitable for me. My brother is a VP of a bank and a 30 year s a CPA. Will see how the numbers shake out.
My BIG Question would be zoning for such a business. could I promote a Saturday and Sunday shooting session and get a permit to hold such a event even thou it would be held way out in country ? If so I think I could make it work.
Any one interested in a partnership pm me. Marty

 

[IdahoSharpshooter]

Unless you have about fifty covered firing points so shooters do not spend half the 5-6 hours you discuss sitting around waiting for their relay to be called, imho you will make money the first shoot, break even the second, and lose money there after.
Things are different for me, I live in SW Idaho, and I can access public land and shoot about two miles. That said, if customers have to drive very far, you will need to contract some caterer to provide meals and soft drinks, porta-potties, etc. The liability insurance ( at least two million dollars per shooter, per incident) will break you.
This is like camping in a primitive area (read no toilets, etc); better in theory than practice.
But, I wish you well if you proceed.

Rich

 

[Ned Ludd]

To make money you would have to start a club and collect dues. Matches are advertisement

This is fact. Membership dues are what allows a club to pay for the operation costs associated with a shooting venue. Match dues often don't even fully cover the actual costs of holding the matches.

 

[savagedasher]

This is fact. Membership dues are what allows a club to pay for the operation costs associated with a shooting venue. Match dues often don't even fully cover the actual costs of holding the matches.

Our range we can shoot 12 shooters at a time . Can't get ten to shoot the match . Last match we had 20 shooters and ever shoot won prizes more then the entry winner got a new nf scope and 400 dollars Larry

 

[Ned Ludd]

Are you going to read and answer every f**king post I write this evening? Give it a rest Larry...go to bed.

 

[dkhunt14]

Our range we can shoot 12 shooters at a time . Can't get ten to shoot the match . Last match we had 20 shooters and ever shoot won prizes more then the entry winner got a new nf scope and 400 dollars Larry

Larry, not every shooter wants to shoot gongs. A lot of shooters want to see what their guns will do and shoot groups. Look at the IBS 1000 yard shoots. Some of them guys travel a long ways to compete and some travel to almost every match they can. That way they get group and score by shooting on paper. Matt

 

[davidpatton]

Our range we can shoot 12 shooters at a time . Can't get ten to shoot the match . Last match we had 20 shooters and ever shoot won prizes more then the entry winner got a new nf scope and 400 dollars Larry

Next time you have 20 shooters shooting for a new nightforce make sure you let us all know. I'll travel. For the original poster, besides the money side of things I believe you have to offer decent prizes before you will have a large attendance. But to just offer a place to shoot friendly small matches it is possible. Hawks ridge does it here in nc. Good luck with your idea!!!

 

[hogpatrol]

I belong to one club that has targets spaced every 100 meters out to 500. 1500 members. 99.99% of those shooting are at most, hanging targets at 200 meters. The 1000 yd. guys are a very tiny minority willing and able to put the time, money and effort in to shooting 1000 plus. You may be more profitable with some type of AR steel shoot at the longer distances. Zoning, additional business use taxes for the property and insurance are going to the big stickys.

 

[savagedasher]

Larry, not every shooter wants to shoot gongs. A lot of shooters want to see what their guns will do and shoot groups. Look at the IBS 1000 yard shoots. Some of them guys travel a long ways to compete and some travel to almost every match they can. That way they get group and score by shooting on paper. Matt

I see Some don't like 1000 part the like f class . It still don't change the answer . Larry