problem with new Lee neck sizing die

[timvv50]

Just received new .223 neck sizing die from Midway and when you operate press no sizing takes place. Die says .223 and A3on the side. Do I have the wrong die or am I just not smart enough? Thanks for any help.

 

[teddy67]

is this a regular nk die or a collet die

 

[BoydAllen]

Did you set up the die according to the manufacturer's directions ?

 

[timvv50]

Thank you. My worst fears were confirmed. I was not smart enough. Your comments inspired me to reread the directions. It says minimum 25 pounds of pressure. I use an RCBS press and am not used to needing to operate it in this fashion (using so much pressure). Had no idea Lee and RCBS dies would function so much differently.

 

[BoydAllen]

So, now that you know how, when you have played with your loads a bit, come back and give us an updated report.

 

[bigedp51]

timvv50

I spent the last half of my Aircraft maintenance career in quality control as a inspector trying to keep everyone "uniform" . The Lee collet setup directions deal with YOUR arm and how much force you apply the the press handle. The problem is all reloaders have different arm strength and the force applied to the press arm is a guesstimate.

Bottom line, I do not follow the Lee die instructions and use cam over as a mechanical stop for the Lee collet die and not guesstimated pressure on the press arm. This takes some adjustment but if you use the Lee instructions you will see different degrees of neck compression meaning compression marks on the case neck. And using the cam over method the neck compression will always be the same.

Lee Collet Die Adjustment
Read what J. Valentine has to say on die setup
http://benchrest.com/member.php?7626-J-Valentine

 

[boltgunluvr]

Yep.....some things are so simplistic they're difficult to function. Most of us are accustomed to things being advanced, but the Lee NS collet die is very easy to use. I use 2 fingers to NS. That's it. It will be very interesting to see what other manufacturers will produce when patents expire!

 

[BoydAllen]

My friend follows the instructions. I do not. (I toggle very lightly.)We both have gotten excellent results. The thing is, once the ID of the neck is firmly pressed against the mandrel, it can't become any smaller. Once you get firm contact it is like variations on how hard you press on a rock. I don't think that the rock cares, or the results will vary significantly. What did make my friends seating force become more uniform was when he started annealing, paying close attention to time. That really made a difference in the variation of seating force.

 

[ReedG]

Agree with Boyd. You can "technology" a Collet Die all you want, you cannot change the I.D. of the neck (unless you change the mandrel). Even if you "Rock Chuck" it and imbed marks in the neck, it will not change the I.D. The Lee Collet Die is a finesse tool, not a macho tool. I rate it as the most creative reloading device ever (followed closely by the Harrell's Vari-Base Die).

 

[amlevin]

Agree with Boyd. You can "technology" a Collet Die all you want, you cannot change the I.D. of the neck (unless you change the mandrel). Even if you "Rock Chuck" it and imbed marks in the neck, it will not change the I.D. The Lee Collet Die is a finesse tool, not a macho tool. I rate it as the most creative reloading device ever (followed closely by the Harrell's Vari-Base Die).

The issue with the Lee Collet Die and "cam over" is that one can either pop the threaded cap out of the die body with too much pressure or damage the bushing that closes the collet "fingers".

Once you've sized the neck against the mandrel that's it. Any extra pressure will just damage the die.

As for the vertical marks, I've found I can minimize them by sizing in stages. A little pressure at first, lower ram, rotate case a little, then repeat. I've found that I can pretty much "feel" when there is no more sizing to be done.

This die sure does produce some straight cases with my finished cartridges measuring very minimal run-out if any.

 

[BoydAllen]

Back in the day, I was a practitioner of severe over camming, so I know all of the results from doing that. After that experience, eventually I learned to set collet dies for the very lightest over camming that could be felt, and have had no more problems, but the real issue is that it felt unnatural not to complete the stroke of the ram even though the results from doing so were satisfactory. Sort of like my friend, the engineer, who gets obvious emotional satisfaction from tightening hex die lock rings with a 12" Crescent wrench. It makes no sense, but it makes him feel better. ;D

 

[Hopkins]

I have found there is much more tactile feedback with freshly annealed brass when neck sizing with the Lee collet NS.

 

[Gillie Dog]

I have found there is much more tactile feedback with freshly annealed brass when neck sizing with the Lee collet NS.

Totally agree. I had a tough time getting consistant neck IDs even when applying enough pressure to leave marks on the neck. Once I started annealing every firing all the problems went away and I did not need to wrench down on the handle any more, you feel it "squish" and firm up, you are done. I get neck IDs so consistant I can not measure the difference between them using small hole gauge and a micrometer.

I am a firm believer is annealing each firing to assist in attaining consistant neck tension case to case with collet neck dies. Annealing stops all variable spring back which gives the inconsistent neck tension.

GD

 

[amlevin]

I have found there is much more tactile feedback with freshly annealed brass when neck sizing with the Lee collet NS.

Totally agree. I had a tough time getting consistant neck IDs even when applying enough pressure to leave marks on the neck. Once I started annealing every firing all the problems went away and I did not need to wrench down on the handle any more, you feel it "squish" and firm up, you are done. I get neck IDs so consistant I can not measure the difference between them using small hole gauge and a micrometer.

I am a firm believer is annealing each firing to assist in attaining consistant neck tension case to case with collet neck dies. Annealing stops all variable spring back which gives the inconsistent neck tension.

GD

It's my humble opinion that frequent annealing is pretty much a requirement to get consistent neck tension when using this die. Either that or have several different mandrels with different diameters so one can adjust for the different spring back rates for brass in different states of work hardening.

I have two for my .308 brass. One for annealed, and one I've "polished" down for the brass that's been fired a few times and I'm too lazy to anneal.