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Problem with 88g Berger's

I was retaking the Stony Point reading on all of the bullets I have in stock for my 6BR Pac-Nor, now that its got 300+ rounds down the tube. I had no problems with any bullet brand or weights except the Berger 88g FB HP Match, the readings varied as much as .040+, all of my other Berger weights like the 80g that I use the most, all read with in .002 OAL to the lands.
I did take several 88g bullets and just using the comparator on the caliper to measure the bullet length from the bullets base to the comparators point on the Ogive, and they were all with in .002, ruling out a bad batch of bullets. Any Idea what could cause this problem, only with the 88g Berger's?
Thanks Mike..
 
Mike,

I do not completely understand that variation you are describing. Please contact me at eric.stecker@bergerbullets.com with your phone number so that I can call you to discuss the specifics. You can also send me one sample of each of extremes you are finding. ,Our address in on our website at www.bergerbullets.com) I don't know what you have but I assure you that we will resolve the situation to your satisfaction.

Regards,
Eric Stecker
Berger Bullets
 
It sounds like your seater stem is not touching the radiused part of the bullet ...but is touching the very point....and it is deforming the point enough that it is changing the shape and the length measurment...this happens a lot with very long and pointy bullets,especially if you are using factory or old wilson dies....if they are wilson ..send the stem to them and they will drill a new relief hole or replace it....many seater stems have a hole counterbored in them and some times the hole is too small or sometimes not deep enough...check it out ...see if the tip of the bullet is jaming in the seater stem...once the seater starts to use the body of the bullet to seat it ...your problems will be solved...Roger
 
Roger, The problem is in taking OAL reading to the lands, with 88g Berger's only, and it would appear in my barrel only. The seating die isn't in the picture yet, but when I get there, there Forster BR dies, and haven't given me any problems.

I had a nice long phone conversation with Eric Stecker of Berger Bullets the other day, and we went over the problem. And I can tell you that hes the type of guy that wants to solve you problems just a bad as you do, and he know about bullets, I learned a lot from him in a short period of time.

To make a long story short, I'm waiting on a new Stony Point OAL gauge to arrive, take some new readings, and if the problem persists, I will send him the readings and the test bullets.
As it would appear at this time, the problem is either in my gauge, or in the way this particular bullet seats on the lands of this Pac-Nor 3 groove barrel.
When the problem has been diagnosed, I will post the determination.

I would like to thank Eric, and Berger bullets for there effort in assisting there customers, service doesnt get any better than this.
Mike..
 
Mike
Anyother bullet maker I'm not sure what you would get for an answer. But I have known Eric the 'stick' since he was a tyke. It would embarrass him to give you anything but the right answer. Berger bullets Rock. I have 500+ empty boxes to back it up.
Stephen Perry
 
I received the new Stony Point gauge yesterday, and tested the same 88g bullets, and the results were the same, I also tested some 80g and 95g and they were fine, so the problem is persisting. So I packaged up the bullets and data, and ill send it off to Eric on Monday with UPS, and let the experts figure it out. Ill let you know when I find something out.
But with out my barrel, about all Eric can do is check the bullets for any abnormalities, and I may just have to forget using 88g bullets in this barrel. That is a possibility.
Mike..
 
Yes I can give you the Lot# but, I'm not saying that theirs any thing wrong with them. Like I said, it could be something going on with my barrel, its just strange, as all other bullets I have checked, give relatively consistent readings.
The Lot# is 0007526 and that's for product # 24023. 88g.
I took reading with 80g and got a max variation of .007, then I took reading on 95g and got a max variation of .013, but when I took the 88g, the variation was .099.
I then sent some to a good friend that also shoots 6BR,a site member) but with a different barrel Mfg, and they tested fine for him. That's why I think its my barrel.
Regardless, I like and use a lot of Berger Bullets.
Mike..
 
The results are in. Mike sent me thorough and well-organized dimensional data and had labeled the bullets clearly using colored markers and dots. This enabled me to quickly determine the root cause. Mike had received bullets in one box that were made on two seperate dies and mixed together.

I am happy to have been able to solve Mike's situation while at the same time I am frustrated with myself for allowing this to occur. Mike's data and markings will allow me to be able to clearly show my production staff how important dimensions are to the shooters who use our products. I will use this situation as a cause to review our processes to help insure that this does not happen again.

For the record, we do not use more than one die to produce Bergers. Every lot will be made using the same lot of jackets, lead and dies. When we change anything in the process,and I mean anything) we change the lot number and keep that lot completely separate from the previous lot. In this case we just flat messed up and I will make sure our entire production staff is fully aware of this situation and what it means to our customers.

One of the safeguards of our process is that we do not batch large quantities. It is likely that this incident is isolated to 20 boxes or less,could be in just one box). To determine if you have this same situation seat several bullets into your cases then measure the distance from the base of your cartridge to the end of the bullet's bearing surface,using an ogive gage). If the bullets were made in two different dies this dimension will be very different for one group of bullets compared to another group of bullets from the same box.

We will square this situation away to Mike's satisfaction. If you have a problem with Bergers I encourage you to contact me directly at eric.stecker@bergerbullets.com so we can resolve your situation as well.

Regards,
Eric Stecker
Berger Bullets
 
Eric,
Thanks for the phone call today, and reassuring me that I hadn't gone over the edge. I can understand how this could happen, even with all of the Quality Control checks you have in place. When you make hundreds of thousand of boxes of fine quality bullets, one mistakes now and then is understandable, and you do have humans working there, so whats that saying? "$hit happens". I'm just glad to know that my barrel is OK.

I'm impressed the way you and Berger Bullets found the problem so quickly, and fessed up in a public forum that a goof was made.

As something like this happens so seldom, I sort of feel honored to be the chosen one, a bit of excitement in my otherwise drab life. Sorry Eric but Id rather have won the Lotto, as the odds are about the same. LMAO.

Thanks again for the help, and the new bullets.
Your a real stand up guy.
Mike..
 
Is Berger offering bullets in larger than 100rd boxes???

I have noticed the OAL issue also, but it's never been from the same box only different "lots" which is to be expected to some degree.

The problem I have is in getting say 5 or 10 boxes of the same lot #... Most vendors are not willing to check the lot #s on the boxes... If anyone knows of a vendor that will do this please let me know.
 
Here at Sinclair, we do check the lot numbers for you, if you ask. When we pull brass and bullets, for you, we always will pull them from the same lot, as long as we have enough of that lot in stock. As we get into the busy holiday season, it will be harder, but you can always send an e-mail, or call ahead, and this allows us a little extra time to get the information for you on the lot numbers and then get back with you. I hope that this information will help all of you.

Cordially,
Bob Blaine
 
Bob.... as long as I've been doing business with you guys, you'd think I'd have known that if anyone offered this service you folks did....

Thank you!
 
This is good stuff , folks wanting to help and folks wanting to be helped . Egos and other baggage put aside, what a great thing for furthering the sport .

Thanks Eric , hope this sets a trend for the other manufacturers of bullets .

Jim B.
 

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