Primers not going off?

[Comrade Terry]

No water. Brass is dried and these were loaded days after cleaning brass.

In oven at 205 for 20 to 30 minutes. No water is left. Doesn't harm brass

Scratch that idea.

 

[savageshooter86]

Scratch that idea.

I've checked everything I knew. Besides blaming primers before posting. I will see if the cleaning of bolt body and firing assembly does trick. I also have Wolff spring coming

 

[Webster]

When the head to datum measurement gets shorter from the firing pin strike, the case is absorbing the energy from the firing pin .

If the forward movement of the case is stopped by the extractor, the primer will fire.

My Savage 223 does not require a shoulder on the case to fire a primer.

http://s338.photobucket.com/user/joe1944usa/media/Firearms and Reloading/HeadClearance.jpg.html

Factory made ammo is always short on head space so it will fit in any rifle. It always goes off. How did the topic get to how do you clean your brass?

 

[243winxb]

OP said

Brass sized for 1k shoulder bump.

Just saying, a case that does not fire, has the shoulder set back .006" from 1 pin strike, in a 223 rem. More set back with the 2nd strike.

Soft annealed brass may be even more??

As the shoulder is set back, firing pin energy is lost.

 

[spife7980]

Factory made ammo is always short on head space so it will fit in any rifle. It always goes off.

Not trying to get the thread off track but I find this to be false. I have only ever had a fail to fire with factory ammo. I have never had a reload not.

To extend the life of the spring release the tension on the firing pin when you put it up for storage. On an empty chamber (obviously) hold down the trigger while you close the bolt.

 

[dickn52]

See post #2.

 

[hammerjack]

If the action was not new to you someone could have changed the firing pen depth.
You could apply shipping tape to the back of a case that did not fire if you can close the
bolt on more than two pieces of tape could be your problem with excess headspace.

 

[BenPerfected]

No water. Brass is dried and these were loaded days after cleaning brass.

In oven at 205 for 20 to 30 minutes. No water is left. Doesn't harm brass

The reason I posted this as I had some rounds not fire. Re- chambered and still wouldn't fire....wtf? My 1st thought was the primers were bad. I posting on AS, got no support on primer consistency being a problem. My thought was there had to be a reason for the misfire beyond the primers. After disecting the rounds that had not fired, my conclusion was the powder around the flash hole was clumped....a small amount of water was still in the case. It wasn't the primers but the powder at the flashhole was clumped because I didn't wait long enough for the washed cases to be throughly dry.....whoops.
Ben

 

[savageshooter86]

If the action was not new to you someone could have changed the firing pen depth.
You could apply shipping tape to the back of a case that did not fire if you can close the
bolt on more than two pieces of tape could be your problem with excess headspace.

Rifle was new and I'm only owner. Headspace was set with go and no go gauges. After that final setting was with a piece of tape on go gauge so that bolt handle barely moved to right when trying to close. So should be tight headspace

 

[Webster]

No water. Brass is dried and these were loaded days after cleaning brass.

In oven at 205 for 20 to 30 minutes. No water is left. Doesn't harm brass

I shake the water out of each case. Once I used a Dust OFF compresses air can and blew air into each case. Couldn't believe how much water came out of some cases after shaking. I give it 2 hours at 200F turn the oven off and leave for a couple more hours. Shake the pan a couple times.

 

[hammerjack]

Check a piece of brass with tape to see if you are over sizing. I don't think your spring is bad at 2200 rounds unless it was bad from Savage. It also could be you are not seating primers deep enough; I'm still breaking and repairing Lee Auto-Prime myself but I'm not having any ftf from soft seating.

 

[primer popper]

This may not be a load problem. With the bolt out of the rifle, decock it & check the cocking button for movement, if there is no movement the cocking button is acting as the firing pin stop. This can also wear a flat spot on shaft of the cocking button.

 

[dkhunt14]

Check a piece of brass with tape to see if you are over sizing. I don't think your spring is bad at 2200 rounds unless it was bad from Savage. It also could be you are not seating primers deep enough; I'm still breaking and repairing Lee Auto-Prime myself but I'm not having any ftf from soft seating.

Number of rounds has nothing to do with the spring getting weak. They get weak in a BAT just from setting. It could also be a bad spring from new. The CCI primers are harder to set off then others. The Russian primers are also hard to get to ignite. This is a known fact that many shooters have had trouble with. Matt

 

[Patch700]

This may not be a load problem. With the bolt out of the rifle, decock it & check the cocking button for movement, if there is no movement the cocking button is acting as the firing pin stop. This can also wear a flat spot on shaft of the cocking button.

A very probable source rite here.. I would check that hand in hand when setting pin protrusion.

 

[T-shooter]

No water. Brass is dried and these were loaded days after cleaning brass.

In oven at 205 for 20 to 30 minutes. No water is left. Doesn't harm brass

I don't know if a little water would do it . As a test I took 2 Federal large rifle primers, submerged them in water and took care to work any air pockets out of them. I left them sit for over 24 hours, blew the water out, my mouth, immediately put them in a couple cases and they fired normally.

 

[Texas10]

Had this very problem today shooting my Savage model 12 in 6mmBR. Suddenly started hitting the primer very lightly and FTF. Never encountered this problem with this gun, so disassembled the bolt on the bench, lubed it lightly, re-positioned the bolt head retaining pin (just pushed down on the bolt head to relieve tension and allowed the firing pin to re-alighn it) and put it all back together. Worked flawlessly after that.

One note, I have a bolt caddy that allows me to un cock the firing pin and look at the protrusion out of the bolt head. Very handy tool to have for trouble shooting.

 

[savageshooter86]

This is one thing I was talking about earlier. Wear marks only on this side of firing pin

 

[johnfred1965]

OP said

Just saying, a case that does not fire, has the shoulder set back .006" from 1 pin strike, in a 223 rem. More set back with the 2nd strike.

Soft annealed brass may be even more??

As the shoulder is set back, firing pin energy is lost.

May I ask where you got that .006 number from? I am tempted to call BS on that one

 

[243winxb]

May I ask where you got that .006 number from? I am tempted to call BS on that one

Simple head to datum measurements, before and after primer strike on a empty case, that i took. Tested with a used primer.

Was found when a CCI 400 didnt fire. More testing showed the .006" set back. A 2nd pin strike shows an even shorter head to datum measuremet.

 

[Webster]

Savage Target action. 308 win
Brass sized for 1k shoulder bump. CCI BR4 primers. Primers seated by 21st century priming tool until feel them touch pocket then give little extra squeeze.

I had 11 out of 25 not go off today. Firing pin struck primer. Tried re clambering and firing again. No luck


I have had this before but a couple per session. In matches I have had same thing, couple out of 70 plus not go off

I broke firing pin assembly and bolt down. Only thing I saw was excess oil on firing pin and inside bolt body. Nothing else looked off. I've never blanked primer either.

Primers are brand new lot. I've had this issue with tulammo primers and CCI 450s too

No one mentioned lubricating the firing pin assembly shroud or cocking piece. This is the area with the most friction in the assembly. Tony Boyer's book shows modifying the shroud to reduce friction. The cocking piece on my Rem 700 shows at least three shiny locations from rubbing on the shroud. When the rifle is cocked you can put a few drops of oil on the protruding part of the cocking piece. Pulling the trigger carries the oil inside. With the bolt out you can lube other areas on the cocking piece. Please don't tell me oil attracts dirt. You are supposed to keep things clean.