Primer seating depth and primer seating force

[TQB]

If "feel" is important in primer seating, and not just placing the primer flush with the bottom of the primer pocket, then wouldn’t it make sense to measure the primer seating force?

If one would fabricate a “holder” similar to a case gage, then use a normal shell holder, drop the case to be primed with the shell holder in that “holder”, one could use a modified AMP press ram with an adjustable priming rod (with different lengths or otherwise adjustable), and use the AMP press to measure those seating forces.

Would that be feasible?

Thank You,
Tiago

 

[BoydAllen]

I would say that you seem to be one of those that have a predilection for making things more complicated than they have to be. People who shoot better than you or I will ever shoot simply squeeze the handle until they feel it firmly stop. Why are you trying to make a simple thing complicated? Do you own a set of wind flags or tune loading at the range?

 

[mikecr]

Force rarely correlates with displacement.
Pockets vary in diameter, and more so after shooting them. Primers are made of cheap metal and vary in diameter. Friction would have to be normalized for meaningful seating force.

Bullet seating force measure is NOT for reaching desired seating depth.

 

[FeMan]

Since you are after the amount of crush imparted on the primer, I am not sure you can measure it like you are thinking. The force should increase until you hit the yield point and then drop off and slowly rebuild. In my experience, measuring the crush is the best way to go.

This gage from KM is the ticket for that. https://kmshooting.com/product/primer-gage/ (What SPJ posted above)

 

[TQB]

I would say that you seem to be one of those that have a predilection for making things more complicated than they have to be. People who shoot better than you or I will ever shoot simply squeeze the handle until they feel it firmly stop. Why are you trying to make a simple thing complicated? Do you own a set of wind flags or tune loading at the range?

This was just food for thought.

I use a RCBS and priming tool and I'm not looking to change anytime soon unless I see evidence that I should.

Yes, I do own 5 wind flags, and I'm trying to properly tune my load, therefore, I ask a lot of questions to those willing to share their knowledge.


Thank You BoydAllen for your patience.

Tiago

 

[Bill Norris]

This dude says he has the cat's meow with priming.

 

[TQB]

This dude says he has the cat's meow with priming.

That's why I made my sugestion.
$600 is a lot of money for a product with adjustable primer seating depth and a "better feel" when seating primers.

 

[BoydAllen]

This was just food for thought.

I use a RCBS and priming tool and I'm not looking to change anytime soon unless I see evidence that I should.

Yes, I do own 5 wind flags, and I'm trying to properly tune my load, therefore, I ask a lot of questions to those willing to share their knowledge.


Thank You BoydAllen for your patience.

Tiago

Good for you.

 

[RegionRat]

Even on fully automated assembly lines, we have very carefully designed and maintained force limit safeties on the primer seating. In the end, it is still dangerous.

If you attempt a concept like the one described, assume there will be a detonation at some point and plan for it.

 

[Sebrock]

If "feel" is important in primer seating, and not just placing the primer flush with the bottom of the primer pocket, then wouldn’t it make sense to measure the primer seating force?

If one would fabricate a “holder” similar to a case gage, then use a normal shell holder, drop the case to be primed with the shell holder in that “holder”, one could use a modified AMP press ram with an adjustable priming rod (with different lengths or otherwise adjustable), and use the AMP press to measure those seating forces.

Would that be feasible?

Thank You,
Tiago

Erik Cortina just put up a video with Greg from Primal Rights who makes the best primer seater in the market. They really get into primer seating. You should watch it. Totally worth the time. I have a CPS and have spoken to Greg a few times - BR type lessons on ignition and primer seating and how and why you tune primer seating. I think it will answer your questions and help in your load development. Basically there is repeatability of ignition which has to do with making sure the primer is seated properly (which is easy to do if you know how to measure and what to measure) and then ignition timing which has to do with the firing pin and how far the primer is crushed. Seriously worth the watch. You won’t be sorry.

 

[Bill Norris]

Erik Cortina just put up a video with Greg from Primal Rights who makes the best primer seater in the market. They really get into primer seating. You should watch it. Totally worth the time. I have a CPS and have spoken to Greg a few times - BR type lessons on ignition and primer seating and how and why you tune primer seating. I think it will answer your questions and help in your load development. Basically there is repeatability of ignition which has to do with making sure the primer is seated properly (which is easy to do if you know how to measure and what to measure) and then ignition timing which has to do with the firing pin and how far the primer is crushed. Seriously worth the watch. You won’t be sorry.

Yea, That's where I found the video.

 

[Sebrock]

Yea, That's where I found the video.

Ah didn’t see you posted it. lol. Well if someone doesn’t want to watch it - they can read my super dumbed down less than stellar explanation. Worth the watch though.

 

[Bill Norris]

Ah didn’t see you posted it. lol. Well if someone doesn’t want to watch it - they can read my super dumbed down less than stellar explanation. Worth the watch though.

I watched it all and enjoyed it for sure. It confirmed something I've always believed about a Rem 700 bolt and firing pin.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

21st century adjustable primer pocket cutter combined with either the 21st century click adjustable primer seater or the primal rights seater is your ticket. Feel is better with the 21st tool but the primal rights is faster. Customer service is top notch on both. I own and use both. I do put emphasis on the 21st century adj primer pocket uniformer no matter which tool you use

 

[Sebrock]

21st century adjustable primer pocket cutter combined with either the 21st century click adjustable primer seater or the primal rights seater is your ticket. Feel is better with the 21st tool but the primal rights is faster. Customer service is top notch on both. I own and use both. I do put emphasis on the 21st century adj primer pocket uniformer no matter which tool you use

I have both too - I see a lot of BR shooters use the 21st century at my club - its a great handtool - and those guys are no joke. The CPS is my go to just because its faster and just as accurate - but cant go wrong with either (unless you do 100s of cases and have hand/joint issues). I use a K&N uniformer but after watching the video, going into a drawer and will only use on a bad batch of brass.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I have both too - I see a lot of BR shooters use the 21st century at my club - its a great handtool - and those guys are no joke. The CPS is my go to just because its faster and just as accurate - but cant go wrong with either (unless you do 100s of cases and have hand/joint issues). I use a K&N uniformer but after watching the video, going into a drawer and will only use on a bad batch of brass.

Give the 21st century adjustable uniformer a shot. Its the only way to get consistent primer seating if you use a set length priming tool rather than feel

 

[gdbleb]

With the advent of the $1500.00 seating press, the $1500.00 annealer, the $1200.00 resizing press, the $1800.00 brass turner, I think we need a decent $1500.00 priming tool.

 

[Mulligan]

I’ve noticed that my k&m uniformer preset at .122 depth doesn’t always touch the bottom of the pocket, not sure what’s up with that but i only use it once per and then switch to the scraper thingy’ I do like to be able to assign a number to that stage whereas clicks are only that, even so I’m really liking the 21st century hand primer also considering the click adjustable uniformer.

The c-21 adjustable primer pocket uniformer is the bomb.
CW

 

[dannyjbiggs]

With the advent of the $1500.00 seating press, the $1500.00 annealer, the $1200.00 resizing press, the $1800.00 brass turner, I think we need a decent $1500.00 priming tool.

Beautiful, simply beautiful!!!!! (Ya know...for many years before takin' up shootin', I was a fisherman. Man, I'd swear that most of those lures on the market were there to "catch fishermen"...not fish!! )

 

[JFrank]

Give the 21st century adjustable uniformer a shot. Its the only way to get consistent primer seating if you use a set length priming tool rather than feel

I think I will’
Nice to read your posts again Dusty.