primer problem ?

[rebs]

Looks like CCI is having problems. Isn't there a rep for them on this site?

 

[moondog]

Looks like CCI is having problems. Isn't there a rep for them on this site?

I'm going to check a few things before I change primers. But, it's not looking good.

 

[rebs]

some of mine were complete misfires and some only partially fired., not enough to lite the powder.

 

[CharlieNC]

There have been a lot of primer problems over the last few years. And all I recall have been CCI. Have they cranked up the production rate for increased demand, at the expense of quality? Makes one wonder.

 

[moondog]

Mine happened at a ELR match this past weekend. I know it's not headspace, I know it's not the firing pin or spring. (New bolt)
Checked protrusion and fall. I know it's not media in the flash holes. Kelbly's Black Bear. Maybe Kelbly's has too lite a spring?
I've read that CCI has thicker cups. I'm going to try the Federal 210s and 215s again to see. Bummed because this tune shoots really well. I hate tuning!!!!
I've got a month before the Niteforce match.

 

[searcher]

Following with interest. I'm having similar issues with a new lot of CCI BR2s. One no fire with similar looking powder after I pulled the bullet. 3 hang fires. This was out of 110 rounds fired this weekend. It's not the spring, it's new.

It is pretty often that you see situations where one primer goes bang for a guy in a particular rifle- while another does not. The one that doesn't go bang is usually labelled as a "bad lot" or such. The reality is that various brands of primers have different levels of force required to make the primer ignite. This can also happen with the same brand and model of primer, from lot to lot. The differences are usually very small in relative terms -- but enough to stop a firearm from firing some IF there is insufficient firing pin thrust or a lack of hard, supported contact with the primer. A weak spring, dirty firing pin, grit, etc. can stop firing - but for those who reload - the biggest culprit is usually headspace. If the case doesn't fill the chamber (as measured from the base to the shoulder) to certain minimum needs for a particular chamber, a well-operating and protruding firing pin merely pushes the primer forward, rather than expending the thrust in penetration. The result is either a misfire or weak flash. When substituting primers in such a situation, one may find that the replacement primer works just fine. The reality is the replacement primer either has a cup that required slightly less impact to detonate it or the brass that was reloaded with replacement primers was sized slightly longer, allowing them to work. In situations where none of the primers are working - it is easy to just load a few of those primers into an empty case for another rifle or pistol and fire them. 99% of the time - they are going to work. this is highly evident with Russian primers such as Wolff and Tula magnum primers. Many say they won't work in their rifles, yet the harder cups on these primers bring to light headspace issues that may have been present all along - yet highlighted when given a primer that needs full, supported-case primer contact. While a Federal 205 might have ignited with a few extra '000 of headspace, the harder-cupped primer might not - or might not each time. But that is not a primer problem. Still - lots of guys fire their load a few times and think the case shoulder is fully extended. more often than not - it is not. And they "set the shoulder back", often on a case that is already needing the shoulder to be blown forward additionally. So the problem continues. Then the hard cup primer or a .002" shorter shoulder setback makes everything stop cold.

 

[L.Sherm]

In 30+ years of reloading the only primer I've ever had not go bang is a BR4

 

[rebs]

I have a second brick of the CCI BR4 primers and I loaded they all fired fine.
It has to be the original brick that has bad primers in it.

 

[moondog]

It is pretty often that you see situations where one primer goes bang for a guy in a particular rifle- while another does not. The one that doesn't go bang is usually labelled as a "bad lot" or such. The reality is that various brands of primers have different levels of force required to make the primer ignite. This can also happen with the same brand and model of primer, from lot to lot. The differences are usually very small in relative terms -- but enough to stop a firearm from firing some IF there is insufficient firing pin thrust or hard, supported contact with the primer. A weak spring, dirty firing pin, grit, etc. can stop firing - but for those who reload - the biggest culprit is usually headspace. If the case doesn't fill the chamber (as measured from the base to the shoulder) to certain minimum needs for a particular chamber, a well-operating and protruding firing pin merely pushes the primer forward, rather than expending the thrust in penetration. The result is either a misfire or weak flash. When substituting primers in such a situation, one may find that the replacement primer works just fine. The reality is the replacement primer either has a cup that required slightly less impact to detonate it or the brass that was reloaded with replacement primers was sized slightly longer, allowing them to work. In situations where none of the primers are working - it is easy to just load a few of those primers into an empty case for another rifle or pistol and fire them. 99% of the time - they are going to work. this is highly evident with Russian primers such as Wolff and Tula magnum primers. Many say they won't work in their rifles, yet the harder cups on these primers bring to light headspace issues that may have been present all along - yet highlighted when given a primer that needs full, supported-case primer contact. While a Federal 205 might have ignited with a few extra '000 of headspace, the harder-cupped primer might not - or might not each time. But that is not a primer problem. Still - lots of guys fire their load a few times and think the case shoulder is fully extended. more often than not - it is not. And they "set the shoulder back", often on a case that is already needing the shoulder to be blown forward additionally. So the problem continues. Then the hard cup primer or a .002" shorter shoulder setback makes everything stop cold.

Read post #25. I KNOW it's not headspace. I'll buy light strike from a spring possibly. It has less than 250 rounds on a new bolt, so not worn. Too light? Maybe.

 

[JB10]

I was having this same issue with cci 450 in my 6x45. These were all in brass prepped but not fired in this gun. I ended up only neck sizing 233 brass for first go around and so far all have gone off. Snug on bolt close but not too bad. Have only shot 50 out of 100 loaded this way. When i was F/L them before i was having a misfire about 1 out of 7

 

[searcher]

Read post #25. I KNOW it's not headspace. I'll buy light strike from a spring possibly. It has less than 250 rounds on a new bolt, so not worn. Too light? Maybe.

Having "eliminated" equipment to some degree and headspace - do you level your primer pockets? Sometimes going a bit too deep can cause this issue as well. I once went a bit too far and Russian primers and 450's would not fire at all, though 7 1/2's and Federals would. Do the firing pin strike marks look as deep as they should be? Just thinking of possibilities....

 

[searcher]

In 30+ years of reloading the only primer I've ever had not go bang is a BR4

Yeah - it is pretty rare for them to not work. In the cases I had failure to fires - I believe they were due to errors in my reloading technique. Headspace off, went too deep on pockets with a new cutter, etc. Some - like the 450's, 41's and the Russian (Tula and Wolff) are much more temperamental.

 

[rebs]

I talked to a rep from CCI and he said they have to be seated so many thousands below flush with the case head, especially with Lapua brass. My primers are seated as far into the pocket as I can get them,, they are bottomed out. It seemed he wasn't very favorable in replacing them.

 

[mgunderson]

Small primers always seem to give me a few more issues. Seating with a depth type seater has reduced the number of issues. I am never quite sure if I end up seating against one of the legs of the anvil or what the issue is. I seated a few thousand by feel and followed up with a better depth type tool and was surprised by how many primer were still a little high. Read flush, but not below the case head. Firing pin issues and spring issues are always possible.... even with a new action.

 

[Doom]

The most often stated primer issues start with "I never had this happen with Federal xxx..." I is a fact that CCI and most probably Winchester and Remington have harder cups. It's not unusual for a rifle shot on Federal primers exclusively to have issues when switching to CCI. I don't shoot many Federal primers anymore but my perception was that the Federal were also easier to seat. Anytime I have a Failure to fire I try retiring the round and 99.9% of the time the round fires, because the primer was not seated to set the anvil.

 

[L.Sherm]

It seemed he wasn't very favorable in replacing them.

This is the same scenario I had with CCI about the BR4's I had. Even though 2 years after my problem I read in an article they admitted there was a problem in my time frame.
Its why I've never bought anymore.

 

[searcher]

I was having this same issue with cci 450 in my 6x45. These were all in brass prepped but not fired in this gun. I ended up only neck sizing 233 brass for first go around and so far all have gone off. Snug on bolt close but not too bad. Have only shot 50 out of 100 loaded this way. When i was F/L them before i was having a misfire about 1 out o

I talked to a rep from CCI and he said they have to be seated so many thousands below flush with the case head, especially with Lapua brass. My primers are seated as far into the pocket as I can get them,, they are bottomed out. It seemed he wasn't very favorable in replacing them.

The Lapua brass does, as you know, take a bit more force to get the primers to crush - as opposed to some others. I think the answer the primer rep gave you may be due to the fact that a lot of us who use Lapua brass level the pockets to get a better feel for the crush. And sometimes we (O.K. - I did it!) do take just a bit more away from the bottom than desired - either because the reamer is pre-set to do so by design - or because we adjust the adjustable ones a bit too aggressively. Either way - Lapau and the primers get an undeserved bad rap. So - I'm thinking the primer companies might get more complaints because of Lapua brass for these reasons. Which - of course - may have had nothing to do with your brass. Still, I'm surprised that companies don't offer to swap out small quantities of product just to maintain a loyal customer - we do tend to keep buying the same products - and can spend a LOT over the course of a lifetime.

I still won't drink Coors beer after they supported the Sierra Club back in the late 60's/early 70's - who in turn was railing the NRA. We do remember these things.......... Ha.

 

[rebs]

I never heard about crushing the primer. I have always just seated them til they bottom out in the pocket.

 

[Old Navy]

I had that problem once. Caused by walnut shells in the flash hole. Root cause was de-priming before cleaning.

 

[searcher]

I never heard about crushing the primer. I have always just seated them til they bottom out in the pocket.

The term "crush" in respect to seating primers is to give the primer a tad more pressure once the primer is believed to be seated. In no way is the primer being crushed as in deformed.