I am currently loading my 6 Dashers on a rcbs Rebel press using Forster FL sizing die honed to my specs, and a micro seating die...I am curious as to what , if any, improvement in accuracy I would see if I went to an Arbor press and inline seater die? I am not a top level shooter, but I am decent. I shoot at 2,3,385 and 500 meters. Just curious at what level the equipment upgrades show a benefit? Thanks for your time and knowledge and or opinion.... rsbhunter
Press bullet seating vs Arbor press bullet seating?
- Thread starter rsbhunter
- Start date
I can believe that!!! Hence, why my post. With $600.00 primer seating tools , $4K scales, it's not a poor's mans hobby. I am leaning toward an Arbor press with force pack and inline seater die....Something about the Arbor press process just seems "precision".Thanks for the reply....I rely on this site to give suggestions and knowledge it has yet to disappoint..... rsbhunter
Gary in MD
Gold $$ Contributor
For what it’s worth, I’m doing almost all of my bullet seating with a Sinclair arbor press and Wilson inline dies. This is for varmint rifles and accurate hunting rifles.
Does it make a difference? It sure hasn’t hurt! If your ammo is already pretty good with little run out then it may not make much difference. YMMV
Gary
Does it make a difference? It sure hasn’t hurt! If your ammo is already pretty good with little run out then it may not make much difference. YMMV
Gary
That is the reason I used Foster dies...from the research I did years ago, it was said that the Foster seating dies had minimal runout. I'm sure now, with some of the high dollar dies available, the concentricity might be better.......but I need to balance cost vs gain....I'm slowly upgrading, just need the expertise and suggestions of the members here...Thanks for any and all help...rsbhunter
Using a ram press, I can feel the difference in seating force while testing bushing sizes, using an Arbor press I can go beyond that feel the difference in friction between burnishing the carbon inside the necks and not.
Al, I don't honestly know, I considered buying a gauge, but was reading on the forum how many guys said they believed that the gauge was the one thing they wish they hadn't spent money on.... I guess I could borrow one , I figured that there was a consensus on "a vs b" for some reloading procedure's....I know the pro shooters have thousands in reloading equivalent, the best there is.....but I'm not at that level in competition or ability (I don't think). If 3-4 hundred can make ammo more consistent, I can work that in....it's the high dollar stuff that is harder to justify....rsbhunter
For both BR competition & hunting rigs, I use either L.E. Wilson straight-line, and/or, Forster ULTRA seater dies and expect equal loaded TIR and on-target precision. I do alter the Forster 'sleeve' by re-chambering one of the same caliber, but smaller case body dimensions, using the same reamer with which the barrel was chambered. Presuming straight re-sizing, both types produce very low TIR loaded ammo. RG
P.S. When using the Forster type [internal sleeve] seater, achieving UNIFORM 'seating-depth' will be dependent upon setting up for full shell-holder contact (cam-over), assuring that all of the potential 'slop' is accounted for. There is no slop via the arbor press and Wilson procedure.
P.S. When using the Forster type [internal sleeve] seater, achieving UNIFORM 'seating-depth' will be dependent upon setting up for full shell-holder contact (cam-over), assuring that all of the potential 'slop' is accounted for. There is no slop via the arbor press and Wilson procedure.
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SPJ, that's what I'm looking for....after all the case prep, it's nice to be able to verify by touch, the consistency of the seating pressure. Any suggestions as to getting a low pressure force pack or a standard? I normally use .002 neck sizing on Lapua 6 br brass false neck formed. My seating pressure on my ram press is minimal.... I'm thinking a low pressure force gauge? rsbhunter
Ok, I'm going to start amassing the items for arbor/inline seating.....NOW, suggestion's on press , die, force pack, useful accessories, etc....I am so grateful for having this forum, and you guy's to help me make intelligent decisions..... I have never been steered wrong on this forum...rsbhunter
AlNyhus
Silver $$ Contributor
I'd certainly check the results on what you have before changing...you might be surprised at how good it is. Good, basic, well worked out gear often yields excellent results.
There's three concentricity checkers here and while I'm not a slave to them...when you need to know, nothing else will do. The nice thing is they can identify issues related to each step of the process. For example, I just finished prepping some cases that will be blown out for a .22 cal. project. After scooping cases out of the Lapua box and running them over a .2230 mandrel, the unturned outer case necks all show less than .001 T.I.R. Next, I'll check them after they're f-formed. Then after full length resizing. And finally, after bullet seating. Knowing they are good to start with has me 25% of the way there.
Once I know everything is fine, I put the checker away until something in the process changes (seating stem, neck bushing, etc).I'm surprised at how inexpensive good, used checkers are on here....wink, wink.
R.G.'s tip on the hard contact with a sliding sleeve seater is like finding a money clip full of foldin' money at the landfill.
Good shootin' -Al
I just seat by feel with a standard Harrell’s arbor press.
Although I don’t think there’s a downside to having the additional data of a psi gage.
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BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
There are a couple of issues here. First of all, is the increased sensitivity to how much force it takes to seat bullets. With an arbor press you can easily feel if bullets seat easier or harder. If you mix, it will affect accuracy. The other potential issue is uniformity of ogive to head measurements. With a press, you can have round to round variation in linkage compression or stretch that is not an issue with an arbor press. Having said that, to see these sorts of differences your entire setup has to be capable of showing the difference, and that is not a given. There are actually people who apparently do elaborate load testing without any evaluation of the rifle's bedding, or any way to see what the shot to shot wind variations are as they shoot a group.
I'm against the grain...again. Look at a Redding comp seater and how it works...It IS essentially an inline seater, if adjusted properly. I see no difference in runout either. I just prefer to seat bullets in my press vs an arbor but nothing wrong with either, IME. I'd wager that 90 something percent of perceived runout issues came from the sizing op.
Look at a Redding comp seater and how it works...It IS essentially an inline seater, if adjusted properly. I see no difference in runout either. I just prefer to seat bullets in my press vs an arbor but nothing wrong with either, IME. I'd wager that 90 something percent of perceived runout issues came from the sizing op.BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
Years ago, one of the regular contributors to Precision Shooting Magazine, wrote about shortening his Wilson seaters so that cases were farther into the body taper in the dies' chambers. He actually measured an improvement in loaded round concentricity. For the Redding Competition seater you can do the same thing by trimming the sliding sleeve a bit, so that the case pushes it up into the die as you seat bullets, rather than the shell holder. IMO there are things that show up on a concentricity gauge that do not show up on targets, but I will admit that having smaller loaded round TIR, is a personal goal.I'm against the grain...again.
Added a bit later: I have proven by actual test using cases with the same end of neck TIR, that seaters can give different loaded round TIR. I do agree that bullets do tend to follow case necks, which makes sizing the major influence.
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