Prepping brass procedure question

[Texas10]

next time start with the truth.
HEADSPACE is a characteristic of a chamber and bolt face. typically not adjustable, see gunsmith and savage rifles.
HEAD CLEARANCE.. is making sure the case is small enough so it fits and the bolt can close.
this is an adjustment that can be made by adjusting your sizing die.

I don't think being pedantic is in the best interest of a newbie. Technically you're correct, however not even Hornaday uses that term. The tool I referenced was the Hornaday HEADSPACE COMPARATOR (my emphasis), not headspace clearance comparator. So the term I used was correct as most hobbyist and the industry understand it. I'm sensing the imminent return of a certain member who liked to rail about headspace having nothing to do with cartridge sizing. You're not him, though.

Further reinforcing that, I made a search here for your preferred term, and found ONE return from 2008. How is that going to help a newcomer?

I also used the term "basically" and described H.S as fit to the chamber which is absolutely correct. When installing a barrel, I use a H.S. gage to set the barrels relationship to the bolt head so that the correct amount of unsupported cartridge is protruding from breech face per SAAMI specs. That's a one time adjustment that is made to insure that cartridges also made per SAAMI specs will fit properly, and not FTF due to excessive headspace. And there's where the commonality in terms comes in. If the cartridge fails to fire, is the headspace set too long, or is the cartridge's shoulder set too short, belted designs notwithstanding? (knew where you were going next)

And that's where the value of a headspace discussion is relevant to setting up a FL sizing die.

So beside being pedantic and irritating, even insulting, what are you adding to the conversation that is helpful to the new guy?

By the responses I'm reading it appears to myself and others that the answer to that is NOTHING.

 

[dolek]

I don't think being pedantic is in the best interest of a newbie. Technically you're correct, however not even Hornaday uses that term. The tool I referenced was the Hornaday HEADSPACE COMPARATOR (my emphasis), not headspace clearance comparator. So the term I used was correct as most hobbyist and the industry understand it. I'm sensing the imminent return of a certain member who liked to rail about headspace having nothing to do with cartridge sizing. You're not him, though.

Further reinforcing that, I made a search here for your preferred term, and found ONE return from 2008. How is that going to help a newcomer?

I also used the term "basically" and described H.S as fit to the chamber which is absolutely correct. When installing a barrel, I use a H.S. gage to set the barrels relationship to the bolt head so that the correct amount of unsupported cartridge is protruding from breech face per SAAMI specs. That's a one time adjustment that is made to insure that cartridges also made per SAAMI specs will fit properly, and not FTF due to excessive headspace. And there's where the commonality in terms comes in. If the cartridge fails to fire, is the headspace set too long, or is the cartridge's shoulder set too short, belted designs notwithstanding? (knew where you were going next)

And that's where the value of a headspace discussion is relevant to setting up a FL sizing die.

So beside being pedantic and irritating, even insulting, what are you adding to the conversation that is helpful to the new guy?

By the responses I'm reading it appears to myself and others that the answer to that is NOTHING.

Well said right there . The guy sucks the life out of a thread . Gets old fast, I (and others) still say he is the artist formerly known as " Retired" ...he was banned.

 

[Longtrain]

Wow, so much info for a pretty simple question. I won’t repeat the answer, asked and answered.

The only primer pockets that I have come across with crimped pockets have been US military cases (usually Lake City), in 223 and 308, as well as some foreign NATO cases in 223. I used and recently sold my Dillon swager which made removing the crimp a snap.

To touch on the subject of tight pockets, they do exist, but again, there are a fair number of primers that will be slightly smaller and will make seating a primer an easier task. I have some Wolf Small Rifle Mag primers that are definitely on the larger side of the scale, as I cannot load them into new Lapua 6mmBR cases without distorting the heck out of the primer, crushing them to death. I save them for practice cases with pockets that are a little more on the roomy side.

 

[SSL]

Ok, I'm going to ask what may be a really stupid question, but here goes. In your original posting on your first thread you said that both primer and case popped out of the tool. Does this mean that they came out separately or was the primer partially seated in the case? Either way, do you have the proper ram and tray feed (white one) in your tool? Mine came pre-set with ram and tray feed (black) for large primers with the combo for small primers bagged separately. If using this combination the small primers would not be seated to depth and could cause the case to be forced out of the jaws by the sheer force of the ram contacting the case head as well as the primer. This would probably result in many primers being seated crookedly too since they would not have been aligned properly upon insertion.
Just a wild shot in the dark and if this is not the case, my apologies. I am curious because I had a batch of Nosler brass where the primer pocket was so tight it took extreme effort to seat primers until the third firing. The cases didn't even come close to popping out even under under the pressure required.
Best of luck figuring it out.

 

[nicholst55]

Federal has sold a bunch of .223 ammo that was contract overruns from the Lake City Army Ammunition Plant when they were running it. Every single round had crimped primers. Not ALL Federal .223 ammo, JUST the contract overruns. Never say never.

 

[Dave Marshall]

Ok, I'm going to ask what may be a really stupid question, but here goes. In your original posting on your first thread you said that both primer and case popped out of the tool. Does this mean that they came out separately or was the primer partially seated in the case? Either way, do you have the proper ram and tray feed (white one) in your tool? Mine came pre-set with ram and tray feed (black) for large primers with the combo for small primers bagged separately. If using this combination the small primers would not be seated to depth and could cause the case to be forced out of the jaws by the sheer force of the ram contacting the case head as well as the primer. This would probably result in many primers being seated crookedly too since they would not have been aligned properly upon insertion.
Just a wild shot in the dark and if this is not the case, my apologies. I am curious because I had a batch of Nosler brass where the primer pocket was so tight it took extreme effort to seat primers until the third firing. The cases didn't even come close to popping out even under under the pressure required.
Best of luck figuring it out.

When using that universal priming tool, if the case slips out of the jaws holding the rim it tends to pop out under slight pressure. The primer will be pushed up where the case would have been and usually falls to the floor or lap, etc. The primer never gets to the pocket.

 

[SSL]

When using that universal priming tool, if the case slips out of the jaws holding the rim it tends to pop out under slight pressure. The primer will be pushed up where the case would have been and usually falls to the floor or lap, etc. The primer never gets to the pocket.

I understand that happening, but I am trying to get clear what the OP is experiencing.

 

[golong]

Wow, so much info for a pretty simple question. I won’t repeat the answer, asked and answered.

The only primer pockets that I have come across with crimped pockets have been US military cases (usually Lake City), in 223 and 308, as well as some foreign NATO cases in 223. I used and recently sold my Dillon swager which made removing the crimp a snap.

To touch on the subject of tight pockets, they do exist, but again, there are a fair number of primers that will be slightly smaller and will make seating a primer an easier task. I have some Wolf Small Rifle Mag primers that are definitely on the larger side of the scale, as I cannot load them into new Lapua 6mmBR cases without distorting the heck out of the primer, crushing them to death. I save them for practice cases with pockets that are a little more on the roomy side.

Thanks for giving me a DOH! moment. To those that say most LC/mil bras is crimped, those days are long gone. I got tired of cutting out crimps so before I replaced my LC stock pile a while back I purchased a Dillon swager. IT HAS NEVER BEEN USED and just sits on the shelf. The number of pieces of brass that were crimped did not warrant me finding a spot on the bench to mount the thing. $100+ bucks just sitting there (DOH!).

 

[Ned Ludd]

Well said right there . The guy sucks the life out of a thread . Gets old fast, I (and others) still say he is the artist formerly known as " Retired" ...he was banned.

The "Ignore" button can be your friend in cases like this.

 

[Longtrain]

...IT HAS NEVER BEEN USED and just sits on the shelf. The number of pieces of brass that were crimped did not warrant me finding a spot on the bench to mount the thing. $100+ bucks just sitting there (DOH!).

I don’t shoot XTC any longer so I have a supply of 223 to last me a long time. My 223 AI and Dasher bolt guns only use Lapua. Sell the Dillon on the forum, turn it into bullets you can use. I always review my stuff, if I don’t use it, it’s gone, all my bullets and powder are from loading stuff I never used or don’t need.

 

[dolek]

The "Ignore" button can be your friend in cases like this.

Should not have to use it ....Not sure how you figure that is the answer to him and his constant barrage of negative crap.

 

[JFrank]

Should not have to use it ....Not sure how you figure that is the answer to him and his constant barrage of negative crap.

You may find it refreshing, I did..

 

[Webster]

Never encountered a "primer pocket crimp" on any new Remington, Winchester, Hornady, or Federal 223 Rem cases which I load extensively.

Also, stop using range brass years ago because of it's unknown history. Since I get about 15 to 17 reloads on new 223 brass the cost of new brass is worth the price to start with fresh virgin brass with known history. Amortized over that many reloads the cost of new brass in relatively insignificant compared to the cost of bullets, primers and powder.

I mentioned once before that I spend more money on gasoline going to the range and hunting trips than on reloading supplies. New 223 brass is cheap. If you use range pickups just use LC or another good brand. You only need 50-100 cases to last a long time.

 

[bigstone]

Ok, I'm going to ask what may be a really stupid question, but here goes. In your original posting on your first thread you said that both primer and case popped out of the tool. Does this mean that they came out separately or was the primer partially seated in the case? Either way, do you have the proper ram and tray feed (white one) in your tool? Mine came pre-set with ram and tray feed (black) for large primers with the combo for small primers bagged separately. If using this combination the small primers would not be seated to depth and could cause the case to be forced out of the jaws by the sheer force of the ram contacting the case head as well as the primer. This would probably result in many primers being seated crookedly too since they would not have been aligned properly upon insertion.
Just a wild shot in the dark and if this is not the case, my apologies. I am curious because I had a batch of Nosler brass where the primer pocket was so tight it took extreme effort to seat primers until the third firing. The cases didn't even come close to popping out even under under the pressure required.
Best of luck figuring it out.

Sir, Thanks for thoughts on the primer seater.

As I recall the RCBS Primer seater had the black (larger) seater installed. I had to disassemble the seater and install the small ram and white plastic block.
As to your question about what the primer and casing looked like when the went flying out of the holder. Some had the primer partially installed and some flew separately.

Regards
Dave

 

[bigstone]

Dave Marshall, Texas 10 and all who shared your experiences,

I'm going to park the used brass in the corner until I get my legs under me. Then I'll decide what to do with it.

I'm ordering LC brass from Grafs plus the Hornady head space gauge kit #HRNHK66. I already have a digital caliper in hand. I (think) I understand the rational why fire forming brass is important to do per rifle and will do so because I have a young lad following me down this path. Thank you for straightening the path out a little.

What I don't understand is the term Datum line. This term seems to elude me when doing a search. Could some shed some light on what that means in reloading.

Regards
Dave