Preliminary LabRadar Testing

[geneo1]

Here is the data from the memory card.
As you can see plenty of information, notice the velocity data as the bullet goes down range.
This information was from load testing on a 6.5 Creedmoor with a 140 gr Hornady bullet. There was five different loading tested, only showed three.
I'm sure you can figure out the BC or CD with the information the Lab radar has stored on the memory card.
Gene

Shot ID;V0;V20;V30;V35;V51;V100;Ke0;Ke20;Ke30;Ke35;Ke51;Ke100;PF20;Proj. Weight;Date;Time
0001;3093;3064;0;0;3019;0;2973;2918;0;0;2833;0;428.96;140.00;04-09-2015;20:49:08;
0002;3082;3053;3037;3030;0;0;2951;2896;2867;2852;0;0;427.42;140.00;04-09-2015;20:49:44;
0003;3085;3057;3042;3033;0;0;2958;2905;2875;2858;0;0;427.98;140.00;04-09-2015;20:50:13;
0004;3059;3029;3015;0;0;0;2908;2852;2825;0;0;0;424.06;140.00;04-09-2015;20:50:45;
0005;3070;3038;3024;3016;0;0;2928;2868;2841;2826;0;0;425.32;140.00;04-09-2015;20:51:17;

Device ID;LBR-0000015;; Device ID;LBR-0000015;; Device ID;LBR-0000015;;
Series No;0001 Series No;0001 Series No;0001
Shot No;0001 Shot No;0002 Shot No;0003

Time (s);Vel (fps);Dist (yd);SNR Time (s);Vel (fps);Dist (yd);SNR Time (s);Vel (fps);Dist (yd);SNR
0.000000;3093.16;0.00;- 0.000000;3081.66;0.00;- 0.000000;3085.07;0.00;-
0.007021;3083.34;7.23;22.86 0.007021;3071.69;7.20;27.29 0.007021;3075.52;7.21;24.36
0.008021;3081.76;8.25;21.87 0.008021;3069.54;8.22;27.56 0.008021;3074.43;8.23;23.20
0.009021;3081.35;9.28;22.02 0.009021;3068.00;9.24;26.74 0.009021;3071.98;9.26;22.79
0.010021;3079.60;10.31;21.68 0.010021;3067.11;10.27;26.18 0.010021;3070.10;10.28;21.71
0.011021;3078.18;11.33;19.92 0.011021;3065.74;11.29;25.97 0.011021;3069.52;11.30;21.18
0.012021;3076.20;12.36;20.59 0.012021;3064.65;12.31;24.88 0.012021;3067.79;12.33;21.33
0.013021;3073.22;13.38;20.03 0.013021;3061.18;13.33;24.33 0.013021;3065.48;13.35;20.50
0.014021;3073.84;14.41;18.91 0.014021;3060.50;14.35;23.33 0.014021;3064.37;14.37;19.71
0.015021;3068.27;15.43;17.75 0.015021;3059.60;15.37;20.52 0.015021;3065.95;15.39;18.37
0.016021;3067.35;16.45;15.69 0.016021;3058.66;16.39;24.15 0.016021;3063.64;16.41;18.14
0.017021;3067.36;17.48;17.21 0.017021;3057.62;17.41;22.28 0.017021;3060.76;17.43;16.44
0.018021;3065.89;18.50;17.13 0.018021;3054.25;18.43;20.90 0.018021;3059.06;18.45;16.64
0.019021;3064.60;19.52;16.52 0.019021;3054.56;19.45;20.84 0.019021;3059.68;19.47;14.47
0.020021;3067.11;20.54;14.75 0.020021;3050.72;20.46;21.93 0.020021;3055.44;20.49;17.34
0.021021;3065.87;21.56;14.57 0.021021;3051.25;21.48;18.91 0.021021;3055.26;21.51;16.04
0.022021;3058.93;22.59;12.86 0.022021;3049.52;22.50;19.88 0.022021;3053.49;22.53;14.71
0.023021;3059.23;23.61;17.10 0.023021;3047.11;23.51;17.09 0.023021;3049.80;23.55;14.08
0.024021;3059.90;24.63;11.53 0.024021;3044.19;24.53;17.84 0.024021;3051.51;24.56;11.32
0.025021;3056.90;25.64;11.73 0.025021;3041.33;25.54;20.32 0.025021;3046.96;25.58;17.99
0.026021;3056.04;26.66;12.71 0.026021;3045.10;26.56;16.86 0.026021;3049.28;26.60;11.16
0.027021;3054.12;27.68;12.29 0.027021;3039.21;27.57;18.61 0.027021;3044.38;27.61;14.12
0.028021;3051.14;28.70;9.38 0.028021;3040.58;28.58;17.41 0.028021;3045.57;28.63;11.52
0.029021;3050.67;29.72;11.58 0.029021;3037.51;29.60;16.94 0.029021;3037.61;29.64;11.97
0.030021;3050.67;30.73;13.17 0.030021;3037.49;30.61;15.51 0.030021;3040.19;30.65;10.10
0.031021;3045.86;31.75;12.78 0.031021;3034.74;31.62;18.72 0.031021;3038.10;31.67;14.73
0.033021;3045.69;33.78;10.58 0.032021;3033.03;32.63;16.58 0.032021;3038.67;32.68;12.97
0.037021;3034.47;37.83;9.25 0.033021;3031.21;33.64;16.66 0.033021;3036.99;33.69;11.98
0.038021;3034.55;38.84;9.09 0.034021;3030.44;34.65;15.41 0.034021;3033.96;34.70;9.86
0.040021;3032.73;40.87;10.50 0.035021;3028.51;35.66;14.09 0.035021;3031.92;35.71;10.36

 

[Bryan Litz Ballistics]

Roger,

The sensitivity settings are for the trigger sensitivity. The unit is triggering on the .223 muzzle blast, but the problem is that it's failing to track. It actually tells you that it knows you shot (because the trigger heard the blast) but it didn't see a bullet.

I tried changing the frequency, which I thought might affect tracking, but no dice. There are two power settings for the radar; standard and low, I was set on standard.

-Bryan

 

[CJ6]

Thanks for the explanation Bryan. I thought maybe the trigger setting may effect the tracking as well (descriminate tracking more or less depending on trigger setting)

 

[jlow]

Bryan,

Thanks for sharing this very interesting information with us - its great to get third party testing data.

As for the machine failing to read a .223 Rem shooting a 55 grain FMJ. I wonder if it would be useful to test a .223 Rem shooting a longer bullet/heavier bullet like a 77 grain SMK. I realize that the tail end radar signature for the LaRadar would likely be the similar/same but it might still be worth testing to get a another data point between the lighter 223 bullet vs. the .260.

 

[Bob L.]

I have pre-ordered one of these. Based on this review showing its inability to accurately measure 223 bullet velocity, I am going to cancel my order.

Bob

 

[Nvreloader]

Bryan

What about coating the bullet bases with a Black magic marker,
may help being able to pick the bullet etc.

I know the bullet base is black from the burning powder etc.

Tia,
Don

 

[CJ6]

Bryan

What about coating the bullet bases with a Black magic marker,
may help being able to pick the bullet etc.

I know the bullet base is black from the burning powder etc.

Tia,
Don

Lab Radar is not an optical setup.

 

[dlong]

Can't read a 223 bullet?? Not good. $559.00?? Think I'll pass. Bummer. Maybe I'm wrong, but if it cant read a 223 bullet, then it is a failure as a product. At this point all it does is look cool.

 

[Bryan Litz Ballistics]

Update

Shot some more with the Labradar yesterday and think I have the .22 cal issue figured out.

All the .224 bullets I've been testing so far have been Full Metal Jackets; cheap fodder I use for instrumentation testing like this. If you recall what the base of an FMJ bullet looks like, it's not really flat, but more concave or dished. Radar needs a flat surface to 'bounce' off of and be reflected back.

Yesterday I tried some conventional 69 grain BTHP bullets and the Labradar was able to track them. It had trouble tracking with my big Oehler chrono in the way, but when I moved that and gave the Labradar a clear view, it tracked every shot. Although the velocities could not be directly verified with another chrono, were the same as the Oehler was reading before it was moved.

Sorry for the misleading info on 22 cal initially; that's how it goes with 'preliminary' testing; you're getting it hot off the presses.

After numerous range sessions, I can say the Labradar is a very accurate unit capable of tracking most bullets we care about. As long as your bullet has at least some flat area at the base, it should track fine. Not too many precision shooters handloading FMJ's, and it's even possible that the developers will push a firmware update to fix the issue in the near future.

As the first of it's kind tech (for recreational shooters), I'd say the Labradar has succeeded in meeting it's lofty expectations which I'm very happy to see. The more accurate chronographs that are available, the more accurate trajectory prediction gets and the fewer complaints I get about my BC's and ballistic apps being 'wrong'

-Bryan

 

[jlow]

Bryan,

Good test. I don’t look at it as misleading information but useful fact finding info.

As you say, it’s hot off the press and people have to take it for what it is. Nobody should jump and make major decision until something like this is completely flushed out. The reality is somewhere down the road someone is going to come back and say they cannot track their XM193 with the machine and well we now know why. It’s all good detective work and good useful info.

I personally think we should rename the FMJ “radar evading stealth bullets”! ;D

 

[KT]

Bryan,
I thought that I read you could hook up a usb rechargeable pack to the unit. Have you looked into this? Also will you be bringing the unit with you to the Sinclair Match? Would really like to take a look at it. I have one ordered already but would like to see it anyway.

Thanks for the review. Glad to hear I didn't waste a bunch of money.

KT

 

[geneo1]

Here is the info for an AR 15 shooting 75 gr Hornady Amax
If some one is shooting next to you will sometimes log there bullet also.
Only showed three shots.
Gene
Device ID;LBR-0000015;; AR 15
Series No;0003;;
Total number of shots;0010;;

Units velocity;fps;;
Units distances;yd;;
Units kinetic energy;ft-lbf;;
Units weight;grain (gr);;

Stats - Average;fps;
Stats - Highest;fps; 2589
Stats - Lowest;fps; 2421
Stats - Ext. Spread;fps; 168
Stats - Std. Dev;fps; 81.24554933

Shot ID;V0;V20;V29;V36;V39;V51;Ke0;Ke20;Ke29;Ke36;Ke39;Ke51;PF20;Proj. Weight;Date;Time
0003;2589;2361;0;0;0;0;2307;1918;0;0;0;0;365.95;155.00;04-12-2015;23:34:07;
0004;2467;2425;2401;2383;2375;0;2094;2023;1984;1953;1941;0;375.88;155.00;04-12-2015;23:34:20;
0005;2543;2497;2474;2453;2445;0;2224;2145;2105;2071;2056;0;387.04;155.00;04-12-2015;23:34:27;
0006;2421;2381;2361;0;0;0;2016;1951;1917;0;0;0;369.05;155.00;04-12-2015;23:34:34;
0007;2457;2414;2389;0;0;0;2078;2004;1964;0;0;0;374.17;155.00;04-12-2015;23:34:43;
0008;2466;2424;2400;2381;0;0;2092;2022;1982;1950;0;0;375.72;155.00;04-12-2015;23:34:51;
0009;2656;2425;2401;0;0;0;2427;2023;1983;0;0;0;375.88;155.00;04-12-2015;23:35:01;
0010;2454;2411;2388;2370;0;0;2072;2000;1961;1932;0;0;373.70;155.00;04-12-2015;23:35:28;

Device ID;LBR-0000015;; Device ID;LBR-0000015;; Device ID;LBR-0000015;;
Series No;0003 Series No;0003 Series No;0003
Shot No;0003 Shot No;0004 Shot No;0005

Time (s);Vel (fps);Dist (yd);SNR Time (s);Vel (fps);Dist (yd);SNR Time (s);Vel (fps);Dist (yd);SNR
0.000000;2589.28;0.00;- 0.000000;2467.04;0.00;- 0.000000;2542.62;0.00;-
0.004021;2395.93;3.27;16.67 0.004021;2459.52;3.29;18.95 0.004021;2534.83;3.40;17.78
0.005021;2393.79;4.06;15.50 0.005021;2458.80;4.11;16.08 0.005021;2532.08;4.24;16.28
0.006021;2395.25;4.86;15.47 0.006021;2462.00;4.93;15.09 0.006021;2532.87;5.09;16.85
0.007021;2393.06;5.66;12.48 0.007021;2457.30;5.75;14.27 0.007021;2530.42;5.93;14.51
0.009021;2389.37;7.25;13.60 0.008021;2460.37;6.57;10.75 0.008021;2534.69;6.77;11.18
0.010021;2390.11;8.05;11.19 0.010021;2459.40;8.21;10.49 0.009021;2533.69;7.62;10.65
0.011021;1086.51;8.63;10.99 0.011021;2451.71;9.03;12.64 0.010021;2530.07;8.46;12.46
0.012021;2386.16;9.21;14.04 0.012021;2451.16;9.85;15.02 0.011021;2524.32;9.31;14.26
0.013021;2382.30;10.00;13.72 0.013021;2448.14;10.67;16.46 0.012021;2521.80;10.15;14.64
0.014021;1157.35;10.59;11.82 0.014021;2449.00;11.48;13.60 0.013021;2519.38;10.99;12.98
0.015021;2381.37;11.18;13.87 0.015021;2440.50;12.30;16.77 0.014021;2521.12;11.83;14.72
0.016021;2380.02;11.98;12.99 0.016021;2441.90;13.11;16.57 0.015021;2518.59;12.67;16.63
0.017021;2377.86;12.77;15.46 0.017021;2439.04;13.92;17.53 0.016021;2516.99;13.51;15.21
0.018021;2376.64;13.56;15.42 0.018021;2437.35;14.74;15.91 0.017021;2512.46;14.34;16.61
0.019021;2372.60;14.35;16.56 0.019021;2439.90;15.55;16.74 0.018021;2508.25;15.18;15.50
0.020021;2373.03;15.15;13.32 0.020021;2432.26;16.36;17.75 0.019021;2507.09;16.02;18.53
0.021021;2367.14;15.94;12.59 0.021021;2431.23;17.17;16.07 0.020021;2508.27;16.85;13.75
0.022021;2368.81;16.72;15.79 0.022021;2427.60;17.98;19.20 0.021021;2500.32;17.69;17.30
0.023021;2363.84;17.51;15.94 0.023021;2427.82;18.79;16.92 0.022021;2501.48;18.52;13.82
0.024021;2363.84;18.30;14.76 0.024021;2426.28;19.60;14.90 0.023021;2498.63;19.35;13.67
0.025021;2363.43;19.09;12.49 0.025021;2426.98;20.41;14.06 0.024021;2495.85;20.19;15.10
0.026021;2360.04;19.88;15.25 0.026021;2420.05;21.22;16.74 0.025021;2495.74;21.02;13.50
0.027021;2359.44;20.66;15.47 0.027021;2421.30;22.02;17.36 0.026021;2488.02;21.85;14.61
0.028021;2355.20;21.45;13.00 0.028021;2417.39;22.83;14.59 0.027021;2490.47;22.68;17.15
0.029021;2349.71;22.23;12.63 0.029021;2417.41;23.64;15.77 0.028021;2486.72;23.51;14.40
0.030021;2351.19;23.02;12.90 0.030021;2414.13;24.44;14.42 0.029021;2484.14;24.34;14.90
0.031021;2349.00;23.80;13.71 0.031021;2409.68;25.25;12.63 0.030021;2485.74;25.17;13.85
0.032021;2348.56;24.58;11.31 0.032021;2406.11;26.05;9.57 0.031021;2480.66;25.99;13.20
0.033021;2336.34;25.36;11.30 0.033021;2409.97;26.85;14.61 0.032021;2477.38;26.82;14.50
0.034021;2340.88;26.14;12.50 0.034021;2408.25;27.65;11.90 0.033021;2479.90;27.65;11.96
0.039021;2361.45;30.06;8.11 0.036021;2397.53;29.26;12.97 0.034021;2478.77;28.47;11.09
0.040021;2330.94;30.84;9.67 0.037021;2396.57;30.06;12.06 0.035021;2471.67;29.30;13.91
0.044021;2327.12;33.95;11.02 0.038021;2397.69;30.85;14.56 0.036021;2470.11;30.12;13.40
0.045021;2324.46;34.72;10.38 0.039021;2390.86;31.65;11.93 0.037021;2465.73;30.94;12.40
0.046021;2327.49;35.50;8.00 0.040021;2389.75;32.45;10.96 0.038021;2470.23;31.77;9.44
0.047021;2315.65;36.27;11.22 0.041021;2390.11;33.25;14.44 0.040021;2463.06;33.41;10.87
0.048021;2317.15;37.05;9.08 0.042021;2387.74;34.04;10.08 0.041021;2461.43;34.23;12.65
0.052021;2310.12;40.13;8.63 0.043021;2386.29;34.84;11.60 0.042021;2455.26;35.05;12.90
0.054021;2302.38;41.67;8.98 0.044021;2379.72;35.63;9.83 0.043021;2451.67;35.87;11.69
0.055021;2300.03;42.43;8.43 0.045021;2381.11;36.43;11.93 0.045021;2446.94;37.50;10.97
0.056021;2304.73;43.20;10.70 0.046021;2383.61;37.22;9.32 0.046021;2450.91;38.32;10.51
0.057021;2295.68;43.97;11.30 0.047021;2376.63;38.01;10.63 0.047021;2442.28;39.13;11.63
0.058021;2297.06;44.73;9.56 0.048021;2377.11;38.81;11.72 0.048021;2441.18;39.95;11.88
0.060021;2294.09;46.26;8.99 0.049021;2372.82;39.60;11.04 0.049021;2444.36;40.76;9.63
0.067021;2277.50;51.60;10.79 0.050021;2369.14;40.39;11.76 0.052021;2432.03;43.20;12.20
0.068021;2273.92;52.36;11.67 0.051021;2374.43;41.18;12.22 0.053021;2429.78;44.01;11.96
0.080021;2249.36;61.40;9.47 0.052021;2372.12;41.97;11.38 0.055021;2423.31;45.63;10.69
0.081021;2248.58;62.15;13.52 0.053021;2362.57;42.76;12.73 0.059021;2421.28;48.86;10.67
0.086021;2243.40;65.90;9.02 0.054021;2361.47;43.55;10.82 0.060021;2412.16;49.66;10.59
0.087021;2239.50;66.64;8.28 0.055021;2360.43;44.33;13.82 0.063021;2408.92;52.07;8.67
0.093021;2254.61;71.14;8.25 0.057021;2359.37;45.91;12.00 0.066021;2406.61;54.48;10.39
0.099021;2224.20;75.62;9.51 0.058021;2356.26;46.69;8.47 0.067021;2401.94;55.28;11.05
0.100021;2211.38;76.36;9.27 0.061021;2350.61;49.05;10.61 0.073021;2387.93;60.07;11.03
0.101021;2214.62;77.09;12.90 0.062021;2350.16;49.83;8.73 0.074021;2387.51;60.87;12.81
0.102021;2213.89;77.83;14.94 0.066021;2369.96;52.98;9.92 0.085021;2367.82;69.59;9.94
0.103021;2213.21;78.57;10.28 0.088021;2357.74;71.95;8.60
0.104021;2210.31;79.31;16.16 0.090021;2348.65;73.52;9.65
0.105021;2207.42;80.04;14.07 0.091021;2353.65;74.30;11.63
0.106021;2203.67;80.78;10.15 0.092021;2343.78;75.08;8.82
0.107021;2201.79;81.51;13.83 0.093021;2348.16;75.87;12.95
0.108021;2201.43;82.25;11.94 0.094021;2343.28;76.65;10.24
0.109021;2195.64;82.98;12.83 0.095021;2340.92;77.43;13.93
0.112021;2202.59;85.18;11.47 0.096021;2342.42;78.21;11.48
0.126021;2234.27;95.53;8.96 0.097021;2333.07;78.99;10.74
0.098021;2335.82;79.77;10.63
0.100021;2325.73;81.32;13.14

 

[dlong]

I'm a bit confused. I planned on getting one of these units. I shoot, 17FB, 221FB, TAC20, 22Hornet, 243, 22-250, 6MMBR, 6.5x47 Lapua. Do I have to worry about the bullets I am using? If so, it is not worth the cost. If I'm paying $559 for this unit, it shoot read Ralphie's bb's from his Red Rider with the compass in the stock. Yes??? No??? Am I wrong??

 

[Bob L.]

I'm a bit confused. I planned on getting one of these units. I shoot, 17FB, 221FB, TAC20, 22Hornet, 243, 22-250, 6MMBR, 6.5x47 Lapua. Do I have to worry about the bullets I am using? If so, it is not worth the cost. If I'm paying $559 for this unit, it shoot read Ralphie's bb's from his Red Rider with the compass in the stock. Yes??? No??? Am I wrong??

I don't think you are wrong. Testing showed issues with the type of bullet and problems with accurate results with the 223 in general.. If the unit has problems with the 223, I can't see it not having more problems with 20 and 17 calibers. There is no data for 243 so, to me, that one is iffy.

Since I shoot 20 TAC, 223, 6BR, and 6BRX, the unit has lost its appeal to me.

It's a shame. I had high hopes.

Bob

 

[Bryan Litz Ballistics]

Guys,

I wouldn't close the door just yet. The only bullet I had issues with was the cupped base .224 bullet. The .224 bullet with a flat surface at the base (not a flat base bullet, a boat tail bullet with a flat surface on bottom) tracked just fine. Since most bullets are made with at least some flat surface at the base, I think the Labradar would track them.

I haven't tested 17 or 20 caliber yet so it's unknown until tested. Even if there are issues tracking these small calibers, there's a good chance the developers can push a firmware fix. It's a brand-new product. I would suggest that if you're nervous about the small caliber performance, wait for more reviews and possible fixes.

-Bryan

 

[dcali]

Does anyone know what the constraints are that prevent a product like this from working at longer ranges?

Is it power consumption, safety, legality, price, something else?

 

[Jdne5b]

Guys,

I wouldn't close the door just yet. The only bullet I had issues with was the cupped base .224 bullet. The .224 bullet with a flat surface at the base (not a flat base bullet, a boat tail bullet with a flat surface on bottom) tracked just fine. Since most bullets are made with at least some flat surface at the base, I think the Labradar would track them.

I haven't tested 17 or 20 caliber yet so it's unknown until tested. Even if there are issues tracking these small calibers, there's a good chance the developers can push a firmware fix. It's a brand-new product. I would suggest that if you're nervous about the small caliber performance, wait for more reviews and possible fixes.

-Bryan

True FMJ (not plated) pistol bullets are sometimes cupped or not flat as well. I wonder how those will read?

 

[JamesnTN]

I haven't read all the replies but has anyone tested this unit on the firing line with multiple rifles being fired during the range session? I'm curious to know if it's catching any feedback from other rifles being fired.

 

[dlong]

Kind of sounds like the unit is not ready to hit the street yet. Maybe this is why the release has been delayed......too many issues. Looks like I'll be using my little red chrony for few more years. Maybe someday it will get to where it needs to be. For that kind of coin, it should be darn near perfect.

 

[jlow]

I don’t think that is a reasonable perspective.

Look at it this way – what would the LabRadar compete against? Well surely the Ohler 35P which is what I use. Same price but well the setup is very significantly different and significantly easier with the LabRadar. What people need to understand is unless you are really really lucky, any better mouse trap will have its own tradeoffs.

In this case, using radar instead of light to detect the bullet gets you a bunch of good features like the easy setup, storage, multiple reads at different distances, never gets shot, will not affect harmonics or POI (these to for the Magnetospeed fans...), not dependent on light and so not affected by light related artifacts, etc BUT the fact that it uses radar, it will have its drawbacks. To say that because you are going to pay $600 for it, it has to be absolutely perfect in every single way is purely dreaming because that is basically the cost of the Ohler and look how many of use use it despite…..

Most of us will be perfectly happy if it does what it claims for the major calibers.