Precision Shooters Incapable Of Precise Language?

[hogan]

Was reading the Daily Bulletin. Great article, I'm sure, from G. Salazar's site on barrel chambering etc...

Beneath is a topic about Barnes discontinuing some bullet offerings, and the quote: "In our reloading-for-accuracy game, sometimes a “sure thing” is the best option."


Really is objectionable to me to see the term "reloading" used interchangeably with Handloading. I do seem to recall that some Service Rifle shooters, specifically of M-14 but also maybe M1 rifles, report better results when firing only new brass. Quest for precision therefore does not involve "reloading". The brass having never been fired, needing no "re" anything...

Handloading, by my reckoning, denotes a more careful, craftsman-like assembly of components into precision ammunition than "reloading".... Most precision shooters actually begin handloading in effort to craft better ammunition than they can purchase from any source. There is no "re" anything petinent to their activity. They buy virgin or once-fired brass, prepare it, assemble using match components and then begin the process over again subject to inspection and further preparations.

I buy Lake City 5.56 and 7.62x51 brass routinely. In effort to achieve a baseline of precision I don't merely reprime, charge, seat and go shooting. Many "reloaders" do just this and are pleased if primer fires and bullet exits the barrel striking somewhere near their point of aim...

Perhaps handloading evokes Lee Loader, Lyman 310 Tool images, but here would it not evoke Wilson or other arbor dies? Arbor dies are Long Regarded as the Ultimate In Precision because they have no variance due to threading, runout, or other machine induced variables. Arbor dies or a Lee Loader for that matter always function the same regardless.


Is this pin-headedness on my part? Quibbling about what we all know we mean but just don't express?

How about the term "caliber" to denote cartridge designation or barrel chambering? "Caliber" is a term that denotes bore measurement, nothing else in relation.


Why such sloppiness in communicating vital factors pertinent to the Precision Shooting game; where chambering jobs and headspace are measured in ten-thousandths of an inch? Is the .22 Hornet a "caliber" or a cartridge desidnation?

Surely few here, even the editorial staff, would ask the counterman for "a box of bullets in .30-06 caliber, please" when requesting to purchase ammunition...

How many attorneys read here? Who recalls Bill Clinton's hair-splitting comment: "It all depends on what the meaning of "is" is..."


In a game where smokeless powder is not gunpowder, and smokeless is further delineated between flake, ball or spherical, and extruded; why is language pertinent to Ned Buntline dime novels tolerated?

 

[Eagle Six]

hogan, I think I understand your rant....

However, if you are laying out the language standards for this board, I would respectfully consider I'm in the wrong place. I visit this board to be enlightened, sometimes entertained, and occasionally to contribute. Until now, I wasn't concerned with meeting a certain language minimum standard. But I did get my shot (no pun intended) of entertainment for today! Thank You....

Respectfully.....Eagle Six

 

[nosualc]

desidnation?

Want to include spelling in your rant next time? :

Sorry for the snide comment, but not everybody wants to be quite so pedantic. It's supposed to be fun, isn't it?

-nosualc

 

[BoydAllen]

Hogan,
Frankly, on several points, I think that you are just plain old wrong. I would hope that you might have something more useful to contribute than incorrect information and condescension.
Boyd Allen

 

[Nodak7mm]

Dang, I got like a million smart-aleck replies but shall refrain!!! I know Hogan did not intend to come across as a literary snob, nor is he trolling/attacking anyone, but it is way too funny/simple/minor to be concerned about...

And I thought I could be picky..... ;D

Hogan, I hope you have a better day tomorrow!!

Rod

 

[jonbearman]

The one that stirs me is bullet heads or boolits. But other than that the rest isnt worth it to argue over.

 

[Eagle Six]

The one that stirs me is bullet heads or boolits. But other than that the rest isnt worth it to argue over.

Jon,

Are you referencing the web sites bulletheads.com and castboolits.com, or the use of those terms in reference to bullets?

Best Regards......E6

 

[Preacher]

Well what about pipes then, when referring to barrels ?

 

[jonbearman]

No its when a Guy asks about what kind of heads you use or I bought some new boolits.I dont know why it bothers me.Its just slang like swearing,but it puts me off to answering questions sometimes but I will get over it.LOL

 

[mr45man]

Well
I had to qute school and go to work, cant spell very well
But can shoot better than spell so who cares?
Some times i get the words so f ed up even spell check
cant fix them LOL
and what is wrong with boolits?
John H.

 

[FroggyOne2]

I guess the one thing that always seems to get me is when someone calls a magazine a clip. Not trying to start that one again! Esp hear that mostly at gun shows!

"Gut me some clips fur my 40 Glock, now I can shoot me some boolits! That'r git-er-dun!"

 

[FroggyOne2]

D,

Journalist have already been "abbre'ing" for quite some time now!

 

[hogan]

I see distinctions.

It was an article on the Daily Bulletin that motivated the post.

The caliber thing is really a greater affront. Consider the .44 caliber realm. .429 is the bore diameter for .44 special, .44 magnum and .444 Marlin. Not owning a .44-40, I don't recall the diameter for that .44 ctg; but it is different. Rather like the .38 caliber world. There is NO handgun of .38 caliber (.375 or .378); unless you own a .38-55 chambered TC or some monster revolver...

The language of firearms, especially precision arms, ought be considered as carefully as you would when determining bullet seating depth.

Actually, the term "boolit" is in use among bullet casters to denote self-cast projectiles; saves the writing of cast-bullet or making a presumption. Anyone loading cast bullets is grateful for the short-form distinction.


Like to impress others with your ignorance? Use the term caliber and cartridge interchangeably. A .22 rimfire and centerfire will have different bore diameters, although it is unfortunate this is so. Actually, it is about as cost effective these days to handload ammunition for the very efficient .22 K-Hornet as it is to buy .22 magnum or hyper velocity rimfire ammunition, once you own sufficient brass. And yes, I do have a bullet mold for production of .225 diameter cast boolits...

The wikipedia article on caliber is somewhat interesting. No real explanation of how ctg designation became synonymous with that of/for bore diameter, but there is info there relative to early industrial age rifle production, namely Spencer rifles and various designations related to cartridge dimension.


Rather doubtful that anyone who buys stuff like Federal Premium ammuntion loaded with Barnes bullets is going to "reload" their empties. Had a counterman at a local high-end gun emporium explain to me in 2004 that handloading was about dead. "Most guys just buy a box or two of premium ammo and go hunting", he told me. $75 a box...

I've been handloading since I bought my first centerfire. The ammo I made was always better than that I could buy... Sierra boattail bullets and careful attention to detail always made the difference.

 

[BoydAllen]

"Handloading, by my reckoning, denotes a more careful, craftsman-like assembly of components into precision ammunition than "reloading".... Most precision shooters actually begin handloading in effort to craft better ammunition than they can purchase from any source. There is no "re" anything petinent to their activity. They buy virgin or once-fired brass, prepare it, assemble using match components and then begin the process over again subject to inspection and further preparations."

None of the fellows that I know (some of which own hold world records), that compete at the top level of benchrest, would ever, under any circumstance, fire ammunition in competition, made from new, unfired cases. Every round fired is reloaded.

Also, saying that a Lee Loader seater does the same thing as a more precise Wilson or custom arbor press seater is like saying that a Yugo does the same thing as a Mercedes. A little work with a concentricity gauge will tell the difference in the seaters, and a short ride will for the cars. I have both (seaters).

Perhaps you might want to do a little more research before making such sweeping statements.

As to your apparent lack of respect for average reloaders, virtually all of those that I know, are trying, each according to his ability and level of knowledge, to produce the most accurate loads and shoot them as well as he can.

As to the opinion that handloading is about dead... in stores of the type that the clerk that you spoke with are concerned, that may very well be the case, but the reason is different than he might imagine, or want to admit. Smart reloaders have taken to the internet, to save money, en masse. Discussing this alternative, over the counter, with anyone would be counterproductive. Ignorance is their friend. There is a lot more profit in overpriced ammunition.

 

[fdshuster]

On my "list" of who to talk to about buying a product, store clerks would be at the very bottom. As I've said many times, many were working at McDonalds (no insult meant or implied for those who work at McDonalds) last week, were hired at the sporting goods store, read a copy of some gun rag, and are instantly an expert on all things firearms related.

In addition, they are "urged" to push the non selling items, you know, the junk that nobody wants, so they are completely biased in what's good for the store (and themselves), not the shopper/buyer.

 

[hepburn45110]

As a matter of personal preference, I would rather read three or four lines of slang and gramatical errors of good information than two or three pages of "hogan" style writing.

 

[hedditch]

OK, I am going to chime in. My take on this, this site reaches a large variety of people with different educational backgrounds for what ever reason. I am going to say that I have had experience with a couple of bad apples but for the most part, all have been extremely nice people so I am tolerant of mis-spellings, miss use of terms, and so on. It's not that important. Think of the soldiers fighting for our country, the varied backgrounds, various levels of education. They are out there dying for us so are we going to look down our nose because he or she mis-spells words, etc. Look for the good in what they have to say however they covey it to you. If what you're reading upsets you for any reason, stop reading it. I have a college education, was a fighter pilot for 20 years, (still am a fighter pilot, acutally), then a stock broker for 14 yrs. As I get older (70 yrs old now)I find I am no longer as sharp as I used to be. (That is my excuse!) Also lot of people of lessor education were instrumental in saving my life when I was shot down in Laos. I appreciate them. Don't care how they talk, spell, mis use words, whatever.

 

[mshelton]

wtf is going on here?

 

[Beau]

Really is objectionable to me to see the term "reloading" used interchangeably with Handloading. I do seem to recall that some Service Rifle shooters, specifically of M-14 but also maybe M1 rifles, report better results when firing only new brass. Quest for precision therefore does not involve "reloading". The brass having never been fired, needing no "re" anything...
<Snip!>
In a game where smokeless powder is not gunpowder, and smokeless is further delineated between flake, ball or spherical, and extruded; why is language pertinent to Ned Buntline dime novels tolerated?

You should adopt this as a rule of thumb: If you understand what someone is trying to tell you, no matter the wording or spelling used, refrain from criticizing them. You won't change them anyway and you'll free yourself to worry about more important things.

I hesitated to type that, because I don't think it will change you.

 

[Nomad47]

If we're going to get into language and descriptions, etc..... Reloading...... Hand Loading..... I think Precision Loading is a more apt description.

Nobody on this forum reloads to save money unless that person shoots a LOT and only owns the minimum of equipment. Yet the terms 'reload' and 'handload' imply it is being done to save money.