Precision Loading on Dillon 650 issues, with bumping Shoulder. Help needed.

[Matt Pridachuk]

So I am getting into reloading for PRS shooting. Have been reloading for .223,.308, and hand gun calibers for 15+ years on a Dillon 650. So here is the situation:


Load is a 6.5 x 47 Lapua with 130GR Berger AR Hybrid Bullet


Forster Full Length Sizer on Station 1

Empty Station 2

Neck Mandrel Station 3

Forster Micrometer Seater Station 4


I have loaded the first batch of 300 rounds on new virgin 6.5x47 Lapua brand brass, and have shot about 250 rounds of said loaded ammo. I am ready to load the once fired brass, and need to bump the shoulder back 2-thousands on the fire formed brass. I have measured a selection of brass (no primers), and see it measures 1.445" (once fired), while virgin unfired brass measures 1.444". Now comes the weird part. BTW this is measured on the shoulder using the Hornady D400 insert.


I push the ram to the top position, and screw down the FL sizing die down until it touches the shell plate. I lower the ram, and then turn the die 1/4 turn until I feel the ram start to "cam-over". I set the lock ring so it will not move. I sized a case and there was no change in measurement. I turned the die another 1/4 turn and sized the same case now down .001 from the original measurement. I figure I am getting closer, and turn the die another 1/4. The handle will not travel all the way down, and the ram will not "cam-over" as it just sticks at the top. I measure the case, and still at .001 bump, or 1.444 overall.


I am thinking that the shell plate on the ram, is "too thick", and I can not adjust the die down far enough to bump the shoulder the desired amount. Does that make sense? Should I buy the Dillon "single stage conversion" kit? Should I just get a rock-chucker or big boss II?


Any help would be appreciated.


Matt

 

[retired]

you really need to do it in two steps.
case prep
case load

 

[DirtySteve]

I have the same issue with my 550. I have to use my single stage press to resize correctly (I refuse to say bump the Guffy back). I do this every second firing. If I go to a third they get a little difficult to chamber. I suppose we both could just have .003-4" milled off the shell plates for an easier fix.

 

[jepp2]

First check the thickness of your Dillon shell plate. I will attach an excellent photo showing how to check and what the thickness should be. This photo is shared, but was created and owned by 243Win (or 243Winxb).

 

[Matt Pridachuk]

you really need to do it in two steps.
case prep
case load

I do, actually I use (3) steps.

1) Case Prep, That is part I am stuck on right now. I want to, deprime, size, bump the shoulder, prime, and size neck.
2) Trim if needed, and chamfer neck,
3) , and drop powder with RCBS Chargemaster
4) Seat Bullets

Step 1 is on the dillon tool head stations 1-3, I pull the pin on station 4 and pull out the case and set it in the loading block.

Step 2 and 3 is done at the next step at a different bench in the garage.

Step 4 is done back at the dillon, when I put the case back into station 4 and seat the bullet.

Currently I am stuck on step 1 with not being able to bump the shoulder.

 

[jepp2]

Another thought. You say, you new brass measures 1.444". Once fired brass measures 1.445", yet you are trying to set the shoulder back 0.002". Why? Brass at 1.444" may be well short of your rifle headspace. Can you feel the bolt close on your once fired brass?

Say your rifle headspace is 1.448". I'm just picking a number. And your die with the Dillon shell plate may be perfectly capable of setting the shoulder back adequately, once your brass has expanded to fully fit the chamber. Unless the load is really hot, this can take several firings.

I record for my rifles the case head to datum length that you can just feel the bolt closing on the brass. I set my die to move the shoulder back 0.002" from THAT measurement. Not from the once fired measurement.

 

[Matt Pridachuk]

Another thought. You say, you new brass measures 1.444". Once fired brass measures 1.445", yet you are trying to set the shoulder back 0.002". Why? Brass at 1.444" may be well short of your rifle headspace. Can you feel the bolt close on your once fired brass?

Say your rifle headspace is 1.448". I'm just picking a number. And your die with the Dillon shell plate may be perfectly capable of setting the shoulder back adequately, once your brass has expanded to fully fit the chamber. Unless the load is really hot, this can take several firings.

I record for my rifles the case head to datum length that you can just feel the bolt closing on the brass. I set my die to move the shoulder back 0.002" from THAT measurement. Not from the once fired measurement.

Gotcha,

I watched this video to try and find the lands,

In doing so, the virgin brass, will allow the bolt handle to fall with no pressure. The once fired brass, has some tension that needs to be overcome to press the bolt down. I understand that to mean the neck has expanded into the throat. Once the shoulder is bumped back to allow no pressure on the bolt, I could then seat the bullet and determine the COAL.

I did not realize that it would taken several firings for the case to fully form. I thought that after a single firing it would swell into the chamber.

 

[riflewoman]

I’m not sure Dillon presses are very good at “cam over”. There is additional deflection from the shell plate and the die holding insert.

 

[Sheldon N]

I've had the same issue with one of my Forster FL dies on a Dillon 550.

Solution is to take a flat surface and lay a piece of emery cloth on it, then run the base of the die in a figure 8 pattern, rotating it frequently in your hand to make sure it's removing material evenly. You can measure overall die length with a pair of calipers, take a couple thousandths off the base. Clean the die VERY well before running a piece of brass in it, you don't want the abrasive dust getting in there. Rinse under water, spray with brake cleaner, then spray with oil to prevent rust.

Works great, no ill effects, you can bump the shoulder now.

 

[retired]

do not handle the case, remove the other dies and let it fall in the bin.
with a second tool head cycle cases to seat bullets

I do, actually I use (3) steps.

1) Case Prep, That is part I am stuck on right now. I want to, deprime, size, bump the shoulder, prime, and size neck.
2) Trim if needed, and chamfer neck,
3) , and drop powder with RCBS Chargemaster
4) Seat Bullets

Step 1 is on the dillon tool head stations 1-3, I pull the pin on station 4 and pull out the case and set it in the loading block.

Step 2 and 3 is done at the next step at a different bench in the garage.

Step 4 is done back at the dillon, when I put the case back into station 4 and seat the bullet.

Currently I am stuck on step 1 with not being able to bump the shoulder.

 

[memilanuk]

Get a second tool head, and an AutoTrickler+AutoThrower.

My 'work flow' for PRS-style ammo on a 550, with Whidden tool heads (with the tool head clamp screws):

1. Tumble clean
2. Anneal
3. Spray lube (6.5 Guys blend)
4. Tool head #1
   • Redding Type S F/L bushing die floated in station #1, no expander
   • Sinclair expander die with turning mandrel in station #2. The mandrel already floats inside its die, so the fact that station #2 doesn't have a pin for floating the die is immaterial.
5. Tumble lube off (10-15 minutes)
6. Trim/chamfer/deburr on Giraud trimmer
7. Tool head #2
   • Decapping die in station #1 (to clear any media from the flash hole),
   • Prime
   • Powder die with funnel in station #2
   • Seater die floated in station #3

With the AutoTrickler+AutoThrower, I can motor on through prepped brass at a pretty good clip. Having a case feeder and a better primer system like the 650 would make it that much better.

Full disclosure: I picked up a lot of the above from @Scott Harris @Jay Christopherson and @Sheldon N plus a few others I don't think are on this forum.

 

[retired]

you can thin the shell plate)on the bottom) to reduce case movement, allow the die to do its work

 

[#40Fan]

.001" bump on once fired cases might just be the ticket!!

 

[243winxb]

shell plate on the ram, is "too thick",

It may be different at each station.

 

[Richard Coody]

your brass is not fully fireformed yet. no need for a shoulder bump. might take 3 firings to fully fireform. bet your die will work just fine then.

a quick check of that is chamber a piece of your fired brass. if the bolt closes freely then you should not be bumping the shoulder.

 

[ranger3]

I experienced this same issue with my Dillon 550. Dillon presses flex too much and the shell plate is thick. You've gotten some good advice and I think the head space check is a must.

 

[powderbrake]

I suggest you find the proper sizing point as is done in this Wheeler Accuracy video. It requires you to remove the firing pin and the ejector. I do this on my guns and it really works well.

Others have stated ways to get more sizing on your Dillon if you need it. Whatever you do, it needs to allow the bolt to drop freely when closed. Once you have the setup done, have all those dies in a spare toolhead, so you never have to adjust them again. Tool heads are cheap, I recommend one for each caliber which you load.

 

[dellet]

Sounds like you have either bottomed out the die to the shell plate, the flex in the plate, or a combination.

You did not say if when you made this setting if there was a case on the opposing side. If not, this will help balance out the flex, more equal pressure on the plate. All settings really should be done with a full tool head.

Another thing that will help is installing a bearing under the shell plate and a replacing the plastic detention with steel. This allows a tighter torque on the plate while actually smoothing out the rotation and snap into lock.

https://ballistictools.com/store/dillon-press-enhancements/dillon-650-bearing-kit

 

[retired]

no

It may be different at each station.

 

[Carolina Hillbilly]

I do my 6.5 x 47 L cases on the 650. Add the Redding indicator as a final check for bump, oal before trimming, distance to lands after seating, etc. Works great as a safety check on the progressive.

http://redding-reloading.com/index....ant-indicator-headspace-and-bullet-comparator