Precision 223 Wylde AR Build

[Sugarbug]

First real post here. I'm a member at bayoushooter.com, but the information and feedback comes slow on this topic, because there aren't a large number of precision shooters on board like here.

Here's the premise:

600y+ rifle.
Chambered in 223 Wylde
24" Krieger Barrel (I've spoken with them and they said the only contour they make in that length is the Varmatch... do I still have the option to go with a straight bull barrel?)
From my emails with Krieger:

If you are looking at a 24" barrel, the Varmatch pattern is the only one we make at this length. It is available with either a .812" or .920" diameter forward of the gas block. Both of these would have a .936" diameter gas block grind and are nearly a full inch under the handguard.

.936" diameter gas block grind (what is that?) and why does it matter that it is nearly a full inch under the handguard?

1:7 or 1:7.7 twist (no slower)

I have this lower: Legion Billet Lower
I want to get this upper: Legion Stripped Modular Billet Upper Receiver

The reason for that lower is because I happened upon it at a great price. It's FDE and the FDE color is proprietary, so I wanted to order the upper through them as well (not sure if this will be possible because they haven't returned any of my emails about when it will be back in stock). Both billet and nickel boron coated. I can easily say that of my MEGA, PSA, Seekins, and Daniel Defense lowers, this is the highest quality I've ever had (it's also billet and all my others are forged).

Is there any reason I shouldn't use that upper/lower combo?

I am leaning towards Jewel or Geiselle triggers. I want a match grade trigger, but don't know what to look for other than $$$ usually means good. I've only ever used PSA or RRA triggers on my regular AR builds.

BCG: are there special match grade BCG's? Does pretty much any quality BCG suffice?

I'm not prepared, mentally or financially, to talk about glass right now, so let's save that for another day.

 

[ar10ar15man]

if you really think you want to go precision in an ar...do not use that chamber.
it was designed as an across the course 200/300/600 yd compromise....
if you only shoot heavy at long range, get a chamber that matches YOUR bullets.

 

[mac86951]

I've had great luck with my 223 Wylde at 600y. I am told it is a White Oak Armament specific reamer, however, and they do lots of competition.

I shoot my AR in a special local blend of F-class, with some local AR specific rules, but there is some really good info in there.

http://ziarifleandpistolclub.com/Documents/F-ARFlyer.pdf

In my experience shooting 600y, I completely agree with ar10ar15man in that if you plan on shooting anything loaded beyond Magazine length (this means all bullets over 77gr, or the 75gr A-Max) then get your chamber spec'd to your bullet. If you plan on shooting magazine length, the 1:7.7 will do and the 223 Wylde chamber will be ok, but you might want to reduce the throat a little as your loads will be short.

If you are looking for something to practice with and improve all your skills the standard chamber will be just fine. If you become a very picky competitor with one bullet favorite, that is when you'll want to look at custom chamber specs. That said, my off the shelf 20" barrel will shoot 0.5MOA at 600y with good developed hand-loads.

Gas block, 0.936 is the diameter of where the block clamps down. That is the largest of AR sizes, but standard for most competition barrels. You'll need a gas block that fits the 0.936 grind, and one that fits your hand-guard. If you want an adjustable gas-block JP Enterprise makes a nice one, as does PRI, the JP uses a standard gas tube, the PRI needs a straight one. An adjustable block makes for better load tuning down the road, so think about it now.

Triggers: If you have never tried one, I'd recommend either the jewel or Geiselle, I have a Geiselle SSA-E and love it. No tuning/adjusting the trigger pull is just right!

Optics: Provided that I shoot under the local rules posted above, which most people who reply don't bother reading... I am competitive with my $80 Barska scope. In fact I spent more on the 20moa rail (a recommendation for 600y+) and the rings. It isn't pretty, and I'll upgrade eventually but I am out having fun and I can't argue with what is working.

-Mac

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3801628.0

 

[Taildrag15X]

Krieger makes a great barrel but they are not rifle buiders.......

Call or write Frank, he'll take care of you, and I'd think about a 28":

http://www.compasslake.com/

 

[ar10ar15man]

frank has done some work for me in the past, but i thought he quit doing custome work ??/

Krieger makes a great barrel but they are not rifle buiders.......

Call or write Frank, he'll take care of you, and I'd think about a 28":

http://www.compasslake.com/

 

[mac86951]

Good point, ARs for precision can be very tricky to get the systems working in harmony. The AR guys know about how to get them to shoot, so their advice and opinions should be considered.

Compass Lake,
White Oak,
AR-X has a great info page too.

-Mac

 

[Citysmasher]

Krieger makes a great barrel but they are not rifle buiders.......

My Kreiger 1-7.7 space gun barrel with the "match" chamber recommended by KREIGER (very close to the Wylde) made by KREIGER turn key is the best barrel I have ever SEEN in an AR-15...

Kreiger sent my barrel to me ready to go. I threw it in the upper... It is not rocket surgery bro...

 

[mac86951]

I'll also specify, there are differences even between each manufacturers reamers.

Here is a link to a few of the dimensions:
http://www.ar15barrels.com/data/223-556.pdf

-Mac

 

[Taildrag15X]

For those that don't want to click the link:

 

[ar10ar15man]

the topic was" PRECISION 223 WYLDE AR build"....
but f class is only 1/2 to 1 moa....x/10 ring.........
so one would have to define "PRECISION"
in my book a custom ar that only shoot 1/2 moa is NOT precision.

so say you want to build a medioum of long range ar for f class type shooting....but not what i would call precision.

ya want to see preciison ar's ???

consider this
26 hart bbl 1" at the muzzle, 1/14 twist min spec chamber with a short throat for shooting 52/53 bullets..3500-3600 fps, 3" wide flat forearm, 36x luepold br scope.......shooting 0.2
ar10...24" krieger 1/15 twist, 308winBR chamber, neck turned again a short throat for 125/135 bullets, 3" wide forearm 36x luepold scope......small groups is a 0.116 with the BIB 135 br bullets....shoots right at 0.2
and an ar15 in 6mm beggs..that i am still working on....

i'll see if i can find a pic that fits the small limits of this site....

 

[ar10ar15man]

pics of precision ar's
top is the 6beggs
mid is the 223
bottom is the 308win br

i need to reconfigure the buttstocks to a near flat bottom..so they track better...
play with gas systems a little....the 6 and the 308 have no gas system as they sit

 

[Citysmasher]

in my book a custom ar that only shoot 1/2 moa is NOT precision.

Red Gun will shoot 1/4" five shot groups from a bipod and rear bag with mag loaded ammo from 55 to 77 grain bullets.

 

[ar10ar15man]

i HEAR this claim all the time.
having worked for years with br quality ar shooting and std ar's i tend to call bs most of the time...having shot precision ars in br competition(club matches) against br bolt guns..with wind flags, br rests...i find the claims hard to swallow.
it typically cannot be proved on the internet...anyone can shoot targets at 25 or 50 and claim 100 yds...

years of experience says 99% of the time it is either bs , a one time event or 5 of 10 or 15 shots on a single target..

 

[Sugarbug]

Good Grief! Lots of information. Thank you all very much!

 

[Citysmasher]

years of experience says 99% of the time it is either bs , a one time event or 5 of 10 or 15 shots on a single target..

1%

 

[ar10ar15man]

you will note i did not call you a liar, and i did leave the window open.

when ar15.com decided to have thier first big ar shooter get together, the listed several types of shooting, but none were precision br style. i asked for a br match so all those that were claiming sub 1/4 moa accuracy could show off and prove themselves... but alas no one wanted that opportunity.......

years of experience says 99% of the time it is either bs , a one time event or 5 of 10 or 15 shots on a single target..

1%

 

[Citysmasher]

you will note i did not call you a liar, and i did leave the window open.

when ar15.com decided to have thier first big ar shooter get together, the listed several types of shooting, but none were precision br style. i asked for a br match so all those that were claiming sub 1/4 moa accuracy could show off and prove themselves... but alas no one wanted that opportunity.......

years of experience says 99% of the time it is either bs , a one time event or 5 of 10 or 15 shots on a single target..

1%

Well, c'mon. Shooting in the wind and mirage is not the same as waiting until it is nice and cool with a 2 mph wind and ripping some groups under perfect conditions. I mean my Anshutz 22 will put 5 into a 30 cal hole all day long indoors... Not outside.

My Ar-15 Red Gun is exceptional... and I made it myself. That was MY POINT...

 

[Sugarbug]

Well, I did in fact go with 223 Wylde.

Krieger 24" Heavy Varmatch 1:7.

At least I think I ordered it... no order confirmation so I may have to call again tomorrow. :-\

Very eager to get it in.

 

[mac86951]

Good luck with the build, and there are quite a few posts on pet loads. The 75 A-max shoots great, as do the 80 and 90gr bullets from Sierra and Berger. I've even had very good results with short-range and the 53gr Sierra MatchKing in my 1:7. Slower powders produce great results:
Varget,
N140,
R-15,
BLC-2
I'm even trying some IMR-3031.

-Mac