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Practice ammo VS Carry ammo

Having just been offered the senior discount for a haircut, I realised that I've been around a while. Then when I think a bit more, I remember that my firearms/handgun obsession started in the 1970's!!!

I was reading Guns & Ammo, cover to cover and police magazines about firearms training ... all the information a growing, impressionable boy needs.

Anyway, I remember reading about officers training with .38 Special wadcutters and using full .357 Magnum duty. The instructors of the time were beginning to be critical of using weak target rounds for practice, but full power loads for duty. They began gathering information about officers' being involved in on duty shootings and found that many of them were freaking themselves out because the wadcutters DID NOT prepare them for the blast and fury of the magnum loads and they would be stunned for a few critical seconds when they least needed to be. Nowadays, almost all trainers INSIST that officers'/people TRAIN WITH WHAT THEY CARRY...so there's no surprises.

I grew up around the 9mm. The difference between "practice" and "duty" ammunition was minimal, usually only a slight increase in the "bang" when the round went off. Then in late October this year, I bought my 10mm.

I was shooting 170gr and 180gr FMJ rounds, which had a very respectable 'bang' and 'push.' I flashed back to those articles and my own training, and figured it would be a good idea to shoot carry ammo once in a while. So I did.

I ordered some Underwood 155gr XTP rounds (rated at 1,500fps), but they hadn't arrived yet, so my carry ammo was some Hornady Custom 155gr XTPs (1,410fps), so when the Underwood ammo arrived I decided to shoot a box of the Hornady's.
HOLY CRAP!!!!!

40+ years after reading about "duty ammo shock," I experienced it...big time! The very first round startled me so bad that I limp-wristed the gun and had a fali to feed. The concussion and blast was nothing I'd ever seen before!

After clearing the FTF (and my thoughts), I began shooting again. Still, it took me around 5 rounds to realize the recoil was significantly LESS than the heavier ball round, but that MUZZLE BLAST!!!! I finished off the magazine, having accepted that the carry ammo had transformed my M&P into a semiauto .44 magnum (fireball and blast-wise).

When I touched off those rounds, everyone in the shooting stalls around me, including my shooting partner, had turned to see "what in the name of all that's holy" was I shooting??!!

I reloaded the magazine and told my friend to give it a go. With the first round, he was ready to trade in his newly aquired G19 for a 10mm. As I watched him shooting, I swear I'd never seen a fireball like that outside of a comic book drawing. I also noticed that the paper target, that was 30 feet away was clearly MOVING FROM EACH BLAST!

At that moment, I decided I was changing the way I would practice. Now, I will fire 50 rounds of heavy ball ammo and work on my skill set, then I will always do the same with 25 rounds of the Hornady 155s to make sure I'm well acquainted with how the hot stuff shoots.

Long story, but my 1970's wisdom still holds very true:

*TRAIN WITH WHAT YOU CARRY!!!*
 
We should also learn where our carry ammo point of impact is also. This reminds me that I need to go shoot my carry ammo and put fresh in, it’s been in my revolver way to long.
 
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Good post. This is true in other areas as well. When I was training in krav maga we would have women in the class and guys always handled them with kid gloves- which I 100% understand but it does them no good in the real world. If you just flop over on the mat it doesn't teach them how to actually roll/throw a person. Gotta train for the real world.
 
I on occasion carry various calibers from 9mm up to and including 44mag. I exclusively carry Fed Hydra Shocks in all my carry weapons. I practice with same weight bullets loaded to slightly faster muzzle velocity than what the hydra Shocks produce in my carry guns. Makes for some fun practice sessions.

Mike
 
I'd also recommend you touch off at least one in the dark with no hearing protection, especially if firing a short barrel magnum. Father-in-law and I both had 4" .357's. The effect is like a flash-bang. And we did it outdoors, not inside the room of a house. When I watched his shot the fire leaving the cylinder gap seemed to be even larger than the muzzle. The effect on the hearing was very painful. Don't do it more than once.

I replaced the .357 in the bedside drawer with a .45.

FYI, it made me reconsider what to carry if in a situation at night. That huge flash was like a beacon for anyone looking to see where the shot came from.

Buffalo Bore ammo uses low flash powder in most of their SD loads and I think some of the other mfgs do as well. I seem to remember Hornady doing so in the Critical Duty/Defense ammo.
 
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Yeah, but they had to back down to the 40 S&W for the girls that couldn’t handle the 10mm. I don’t know where they are now.
The worst thing about the 40 S&W was that everyone tried to soften the 10mm to 40 S&W power levels for those (guys and gals) who couldn't deal with the full power 10s. Unfortunately, that trend lives on today, with the exception of Buffalo Bore, Underwood, some Doubletap loads and perhaps a few others (Check out Tools & Targets on YouTube to see what I mean).

The 10 isn't for everyone. But for those of us who like it, and don't mind the recoil/blast, keep the loads hot & spicy. If I'd have wanted 40 S&W power levels, I'd have gotten a 40.
 
Having several friends who were in law enforcement, to a man, they told me that they practice with the ammo they carry. This just kind of makes sense to me.

Since I am not and never have been in law enforcement, I would defer to those who have rather than "gun magazine experts".

Hearing loss in one issue that a lot of self-defense carriers don't think about. If you discharge a pistol without hearing protection, especially in an enclosed room, you will absolutely suffer hearing loss. It only takes one time. Still, on balance, if your life is in jeopardy, hearing loss, while important, becomes a secondary consideration I would imagine,
 
The worst thing about the 40 S&W was that everyone tried to soften the 10mm to 40 S&W power levels for those (guys and gals) who couldn't deal with the full power 10s. Unfortunately, that trend lives on today, with the exception of Buffalo Bore, Underwood, some Doubletap loads and perhaps a few others (Check out Tools & Targets on YouTube to see what I mean).

The 10 isn't for everyone. But for those of us who like it, and don't mind the recoil/blast, keep the loads hot & spicy. If I'd have wanted 40 S&W power levels, I'd have gotten a 40.
Yup. I bought a 10mm and grabbed a couple boxes of ammo. When I got home and looked at the ammo specs, it was essentially 40 S&W power level. I bought a heavier spring and a custom barrel. Now my loads are full power screaming bear killers!
 
A good carry load should have flash suppressant incorporated in the powder charge. When I first joined the department in '84 the Silvertip ammo we were issued flashed so bright we didn't really need a flashlight for the night shoots. That changed by '86 or so when Winchester got rid of the flash.
 
That's how it got the name "40 Short & Weak."
Doubt you'd say that about my .40 loads . I load my practice load to just a bit hotter than "Critical Duty" , with a powder that gives me more velocity and equal chamber pressure .
Three inch aged Oak Slabs say it's NOT a powder-puff load . And I like being able to put ten rounds in the Black at 100 yards .
 
Doubt you'd say that about my .40 loads . I load my practice load to just a bit hotter than "Critical Duty" , with a powder that gives me more velocity and equal chamber pressure .
Three inch aged Oak Slabs say it's NOT a powder-puff load . And I like being able to put ten rounds in the Black at 100 yards .
I think the 40 S&W is a fine round and I personally wouldn't call it weak. I was just commenting on the things that were being said by many back when the FBI said 10mm is too much for many in it's rank and file. I'm sure handloading can elevate it to a level or two above factory ammo.

I don't really understand why LE in general has gone from 40 back down to 9mm. While the 9mm we can argue has proven itself adequate the 40 is more so.
 
I think the 40 S&W is a fine round and I personally wouldn't call it weak. I was just commenting on the things that were being said by many back when the FBI said 10mm is too much for many in it's rank and file. I'm sure handloading can elevate it to a level or two above factory ammo.

I don't really understand why LE in general has gone from 40 back down to 9mm. While the 9mm we can argue has proven itself adequate the 40 is more so.
The 9mm is FIRMLY entrenched in the military and LE worlds, so it has that going for it. Plus, many LE administrators don't like the IMAGE of having their officers carry a caliber that to the unknowing, looks like overkill or worse.

We had one administration where we were authorized to carry 9mm, 40 cal, or .45. We had two officers involved shootings where a .45 was used. The result was 2 deceased suspects. Compare that to a half-dozen shootings with the 9mm, where the suspects were still highly active after being shot. After that, the chief decided to mandate .45s for all.

The NEXT chief was too political and, sorry to say ... "Woke." He used the same excuse as the FBI ... the .45 was "too big and powerful" for the 'average' officer to handle/qualify with. Behind the scenes... that's another story, but public opinion played a part - as did his own soft on crime policies.
 
I think it has a lot to do with “commitment”. I’ve known a few LEOs that couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn. They carried their issued weapon, but never really practiced with it beyond being able to pass the yearly qualification.
Then you have the “gun guy” that’s at the range every chance he gets, honing his skills. He knows all the cartridges abilities, chooses what he likes and makes sure he can hit what he’s aiming at.
 
I think it has a lot to do with “commitment”. I’ve known a few LEOs that couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn. They carried their issued weapon, but never really practiced with it beyond being able to pass the yearly qualification.
Then you have the “gun guy” that’s at the range every chance he gets, honing his skills. He knows all the cartridges abilities, chooses what he likes and makes sure he can hit what he’s aiming at.
Funny you mention that. I took my wife to the range, because she was interested in watching us qualify - she's used to seeing me shoot, and THOUGHT most cops shot like me & my dad.

She watched and one of the guys got really excited about his target. It caught her attention, so she went to look. She was completely dumbfounded, because the guy was SO EXCITED, that he hit the paper. Not the silhouette, THE PAPER!!

One of his rounds nicked the 3×4 foot paper, nowhere near the silhouette (fortunately for him, that was just the 1st stage and he managed to get enough hits during the rest if the stages to pass).

Confused, my wife went to the Sgt running the range (a friend of mine) and asked about it. He glanced at me, looked back at her and said: "Not everyone shoots like your husband."

I worked with several people who looked at it as being "just a job" and qualification was just something to "they just needed to squeak by."
 

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