PPC Questions

[JDBraddy]

Am somewhat new to PPC and Short Range Benchrest, and am trying to learn. Bought a used rifle with RBLP Stolle Teddy action, Jewel trigger, and McMillen stock, added a used March 10-60, had a new barrel threaded and chambered 1:13.5" with .263nk, use the one it came with the rifle for plinking and fire-forming. Turned Lapua brass to .0082" neck. Am using a .2575 bushing in Redding S-type FL Sizing die, and Wilson Arbor-Press style Seater. Am using RCBS Charge-Master.

I've only shot a few matches so farr, but have probably used up more than half the new barrel's life testing loads. Have tried H-322, LT-32, VV N-133, and currently Bart's Ultra's with 28.9gr N-133 at about 3340fps seems to be giving most consistent results of anything I've tried so farr, I've been unable to load the bullet long enough to reach Jam, so am just seating them at base to ojive length of 1.750" witch seems to put the bullet base about half way down the neck. This seems to work the best so farr. Have been trying to learn to shoot free recoil, but seems to behave better if I lay my thumb lightly across the back of the pistol grip. I have an old heart benchrest, a chrono, and my own set of flags now. Just upgraded my rear bag to a Mini-Gator with the 3m slick ears, the new rear bag helps quite a bit. Am trying to learn to read wind and mirage, but it's tough at a public range where half the time, the guy two benches down is blasting away with an AR or AK, bouncing steel cases off my March scope. Shooting in the high 0.2's to low .03's it will occasionally tease me with a group in the teens, but can't do it consistently yet. Want to improve, but am not sure what to try or work on next. Suggestions welcome.

 

[jimmymac]

I've only been shooting a PPC for a year so someone else more knowledgeable than me will be along shortly to help, but it seems odd that you can't seat your bullets to jam length. Have you at least found touch length? At a minimum, you should be able to find the lands using the stripped bolt method and work seating depth deeper into the lands from there with enough bullet left in the case neck as to not be an issue.

 

[Tim Singleton]

Well sounds like you are off to a good start
Believe it or not teens aren't that easy to come even for veteran ppc competitors. Post some of your targets we can help you learn how to read the pattern the group formed
Whether you needed more powder that day or not
Seating depth is a huge factor .002 at a time makes a difference.
This is a match report from last weekend you will see just a few had their stuff working really well

 

[LHSmith]

N-133 requires constant tuning ( powder adjustment) as ambient temp. and humidity change....it requires a long learning curve to master- meaning record a lot of data to get a handle on it. Also N-133 loves neck tension - I use a .256 bushing for it and won't use it when humidity drops below 30%. I find H-322 the most user friendly powder, but Lt-32 is my go to powder these days - both do well with .2575 bushings and they are stable enough to allow me to pre-load so I can dispense powder under the same temp. & humidity (= more accurate drop charges) at home. Also allows me to monitor flags between relays so I can get a better handle on condition patterns.
Some things I would try- custom flat base bullets, try different placements of the stock on the front bag so it recoils straight back, call Kelbly and get a replacement firing pin spring then store the bolt in the uncocked position to extend it's life, practice with flags to master shooting with both eyes open, and practice in the wind. FWIW I like extra tall rings to get my cheek away from the stock, and the mini-gator is a big bag so be careful not to make upper body contact with it.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

If youre pic is showing you ready to shoot you should revisit that front bag tension. Youll never shoot very small groups consistently if your forend moves side to side. Also looks like you need to straighten that rear rest leg and line it all up

 

[rebel]

You are off to a better start than I was as far as equipment goes. ALL the advice you have received above is great. As LH mentioned, the one thing that has helped me with n133 is writing down the conditions I shoot in and compare targets. I make a note of it on the target and keep them under my reloading bench.

 

[Tim Singleton]

how well do your fired cases come out of the gun?
does the bolt open easy and extract eject the case without upsetting the rifle?
do your groups just look loose or are they touching making a vertical or horizontal slot

 

[INShooter]

Find a mentor in your area that you can shoot with. The other posters have given you good advise. Buy more barrels and wear them out by practicing in the wind. You can get there.

 

[INShooter]

I just thought of something else. Don't take everything you read on the internet as the absolute truth. Test it and see for yourself.

 

[rkittine]

I too am new to 6PPC and you are way ahead of me. I have two mentors, but unfortunately neither are close by. I am just having fun shooting.

Bob

 

[R.Morehouse]

Suggestion for the public range. I carry a cheap Caldwell brass catcher on the chance one of the AR guys park on the bench next to me and " has been meaning to get one of those things" . Show them how easy it is to mount the catcher on there gun and tell them for a $10.bill they can have one of there own.....Has worked for me.

Regards
Rick

 

[rkittine]

Also noticed you are shooting off what appears to be a wooden bench? What is the rest of it look like? When I shoot at my home range (wooden benches) I can hold groups as well as when I shoot at a purpose built BR Range.

Bob

 

[JDBraddy]

I've only been shooting a PPC for a year so someone else more knowledgeable than me will be along shortly to help, but it seems odd that you can't seat your bullets to jam length. Have you at least found touch length? At a minimum, you should be able to find the lands using the stripped bolt method and work seating depth deeper into the lands from there with enough bullet left in the case neck as to not be an issue.

Just touching the lands leaves the base of the bullet with less than 1/8" neck contact, you can literally push the bullet side to side or pull it with your fingers. I seat it a deeper, just to get enough purchase and neck tension to securely hold it in place.

 

[JDBraddy]

N-133 requires constant tuning ( powder adjustment) as ambient temp. and humidity change....it requires a long learning curve to master- meaning record a lot of data to get a handle on it. Also N-133 loves neck tension - I use a .256 bushing for it and won't use it when humidity drops below 30%. I find H-322 the most user friendly powder, but Lt-32 is my go to powder these days - both do well with .2575 bushings and they are stable enough to allow me to pre-load so I can dispense powder under the same temp. & humidity (= more accurate drop charges) at home. Also allows me to monitor flags between relays so I can get a better handle on condition patterns.
Some things I would try- custom flat base bullets, try different placements of the stock on the front bag so it recoils straight back, call Kelbly and get a replacement firing pin spring then store the bolt in the uncocked position to extend it's life, practice with flags to master shooting with both eyes open, and practice in the wind. FWIW I like extra tall rings to get my cheek away from the stock, and the mini-gator is a big bag so be careful not to make upper body contact with it.

Good, glad someone confirmed this, neck tension has been a confusing problem for me. Can't really get into the lands and have enough. I pre-load just because it's such a pain to set up on a public range, and have novice shooters walk by picking things up, playing with them, and asking a million questions. I usually spend half my range time teaching informal classes on things like reloading, parallax, or just helping them mount a scope and get on paper at 100yd. Will take a look at my setup, and try to pay more attention to getting things aligned. Also, need to develop a system for recording and organizing data, I catch myself repeating the same experiments over and over sometimes.

 

[BoydAllen]

The reason that competitors load at the range is because it is necessary if they want to get the accuracy that they need, it is not some sort of optional, superfluous window dressing. By preloading and not having the flexibility in your chamber's design to work with a full range of seating depths you are giving up tools that will have an effect on the level of accuracy that you can achieve, even if everything else is perfect.

 

[LHSmith]

The reason that competitors load at the range is because it is necessary if they want to get the accuracy that they need, it is not some sort of optional, superfluous window dressing. By preloading and not having the flexibility in your chamber's design to work with a full range of seating depths you are giving up tools that will have an effect on the level of accuracy that you can achieve, even if everything else is perfect.

Very true. This is where a tuner comes in handy for my needs....I shoot SR Score.

 

[johnmyers]

Very true. This is where a tuner comes in handy for my needs....I shoot SR Score.

Finally someone mentions using a tuner

 

[Webster]

Am somewhat new to PPC and Short Range Benchrest, and am trying to learn. Bought a used rifle with RBLP Stolle Teddy action, Jewel trigger, and McMillen stock, added a used March 10-60, had a new barrel threaded and chambered 1:13.5" with .263nk, use the one it came with the rifle for plinking and fire-forming. Turned Lapua brass to .0082" neck. Am using a .2575 bushing in Redding S-type FL Sizing die, and Wilson Arbor-Press style Seater. Am using RCBS Charge-Master.

I've only shot a few matches so farr, but have probably used up more than half the new barrel's life testing loads. Have tried H-322, LT-32, VV N-133, and currently Bart's Ultra's with 28.9gr N-133 at about 3340fps seems to be giving most consistent results of anything I've tried so farr, I've been unable to load the bullet long enough to reach Jam, so am just seating them at base to ojive length of 1.750" witch seems to put the bullet base about half way down the neck. This seems to work the best so farr. Have been trying to learn to shoot free recoil, but seems to behave better if I lay my thumb lightly across the back of the pistol grip. I have an old heart benchrest, a chrono, and my own set of flags now. Just upgraded my rear bag to a Mini-Gator with the 3m slick ears, the new rear bag helps quite a bit. Am trying to learn to read wind and mirage, but it's tough at a public range where half the time, the guy two benches down is blasting away with an AR or AK, bouncing steel cases off my March scope. Shooting in the high 0.2's to low .03's it will occasionally tease me with a group in the teens, but can't do it consistently yet. Want to improve, but am not sure what to try or work on next. Suggestions welcome.

Buy Tony Boyers book "the Accurate Rifle". It's on Amazon for a good price. I bought mine from MidwayUsa about five years ago. They have reasonable shipping charges. Someone one this website bought a copy somewhere else $19 shipping. Tony is the #1 guro in SR bench rest. He says he can find a good load with 30 shots.

 

[thekriebles]

In addition, Mike Ratigan's book "Extreme Rifle Accuracy" will save you a ton of learning time... check Amazon for a copy. It too is a must read if you're really serious about consistently reducing your group size.

 

[DCRYDER]

How's the gun slide in the bags? I see you have leather ears on rear bag with no powder.