Powder for 223 and 6.5

[mausermanbob]

I need some advice choosing a smokeless powder.
I have a 223 Wylde 24 inch bull barrel 1:7 twist.
And a 6.5 Super Varmint Creedmoor 20 inch barrel 1:8 twist.

I'm curious if there is one crossover powder that will allow me to shoot medium to heavier (65 up) bullets in the 223 and also some medium to heavier (123 to say 140) grain bullets in the 6.5.

I can get all the information I need on the Hodgkin website for the 223 but their 223 barrel is rated at 1:12 twist instead of my 1:7.
Additionally I believe my Wylde barrel should take a little bit heavier pressure than a normal 223.
I've got powders (Ramshot TAC and H4350) that should work individually.

I've got some powders in mind IMR 4895, H4895 and Varget that I think should work.
But some of those are hard to find.
Has anyone have another powder that might work in both chambering?

Any information would be appreciated.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Think you would still be better off with two different powders. 4350 types for the 6.5, Varget- 4895 types for the .223.

 

[mausermanbob]

Thanks Kraken, that's my main plan I was looking for alternates in case the powder starts drying up with all the wars going on.

 

[LiveFire]

I do not own a 6.5 creedmoor but hodgdon list winchester staball match data for both 223 and 6.5 creedmoor. I have been using it with 77gr match kings and tipped match kings in a 223 wylde chambered ar15 and am coming close to dropping imr8208xbr completely off my list of powders I use. In my ar accuracy is good, velocity is good and win staball match is supposed to be temp insensitive and have a copper fouling reducer additive.

 

[DGP4]

There are a lot of good powders for .223, but the 6.5 Creed seems to need powder in the 4350 burn rate. Ramshot TAC is my favorite .223 powder, but H335, Varget and BL(C)2 work as well.

 

[NZ_Fclass]

Whilst not optimum, Varget will work

 

[mausermanbob]

Thanks Livefire, Stable match was on my possibility list l.
Thanks for confirming it works well in your 223. That's the kind of information I'm looking for

 

[mausermanbob]

Whilst not optimum, Varget will work

Thanks NZ_Fclass
Thanks for the feedback I will put a question mark by that one and do some further research. Appreciate it

 

[mausermanbob]

There are a lot of good powders for .223, but the 6.5 Creed seems to need powder in the 4350 burn rate. Ramshot TAC is my favorite .223 powder, but H335, Varget and BL(C)2 work as well.

Thanks DGP4
I'll be staying with TAC as well. Fits almost all the 223 bullet weights.
I'll add H335 and aBL(C)2 to my list.
Appreciate it

 

[William Vogel]

I use Gordon’s reloading tools software to help selecting combinations of powder and bullet for each of my rifles. It makes predictions for pressure and even optimal charge weight. Accuracy of these predictions can align with findings in the field but I really just use pressure prediction to attempt to be safe, as the optimal barrel time prediction gives me varying degrees of success. The most important thing it made me aware of was powder burnout before bullet exit of the muzzle. My choice of powder with a burnout before muzzle exit has lowered my ES and SD and gotten my group sizes tighter at long and short range. Is it for real? I don’t know for sure except I have experienced better results after using the software and with component changes, I waste WAY less stuff than relying on published min/max load data because COL, barrel length etc are never within my combination. I use TAC in 223 because the above mentioned results and I shoot 73, 75 and 80ELD bullets in modified throat barrels with long free bore and 1 degree 30 minute leade angle. 6.5 Creedmoor I use IMR 4350, Hybrid 100V, Ramshot Hunter and Big Game (different bullets). 308 is IMR 4895 and 6Dasher is VV n140 and Varget. I’ve got a lot more powder but it’s sitting on the shelf because after GRT, I learned they aren’t what I need. If you don’t have it, I suggest you download it and let it guide you. It’s not always right but it sure narrowed down my waste.

 

[mausermanbob]

I use Gordon’s reloading tools software to help selecting combinations of powder and bullet for each of my rifles. It makes predictions for pressure and even optimal charge weight. Accuracy of these predictions can align with findings in the field but I really just use pressure prediction to attempt to be safe, as the optimal barrel time prediction gives me varying degrees of success. The most important thing it made me aware of was powder burnout before bullet exit of the muzzle. My choice of powder with a burnout before muzzle exit has lowered my ES and SD and gotten my group sizes tighter at long and short range. Is it for real? I don’t know for sure except I have experienced better results after using the software and with component changes, I waste WAY less stuff than relying on published min/max load data because COL, barrel length etc are never within my combination. I use TAC in 223 because the above mentioned results and I shoot 73, 75 and 80ELD bullets in modified throat barrels with long free bore and 1 degree 30 minute leade angle. 6.5 Creedmoor I use IMR 4350, Hybrid 100V, Ramshot Hunter and Big Game (different bullets). 308 is IMR 4895 and 6Dasher is VV n140 and Varget. I’ve got a lot more powder but it’s sitting on the shelf because after GRT, I learned they aren’t what I need. If you don’t have it, I suggest you download it and let it guide you. It’s not always right but it sure narrowed down my waste.

Thanks for the powder and bullet information and the GRT tip.
I retired as a systems programmer after having worked on large and small mainframe system for over 30 years.
From my experience the software package that Gordon developed and put out is just amazing.
I'm looking forward to using it.

Thanks so much
Bob

 

[BlueWater]

I'm curious if there is one crossover powder that will allow me to shoot medium to heavier (65 up) bullets in the 223 and also some medium to heavier (123 to say 140) grain bullets in the 6.5.

A shooting buddy of mine uses the IMR 8208 XBR for his .223 and it also works fine for mid-weight 6.5CM (120-130gr). Nosler even lists XBR as their most-accurate load for 140gr bullets, among various powders they've tested. So, it can certainly work well. Assuming your own rifle "likes" the XBR and bullet selection.

 

[mausermanbob]

A shooting buddy of mine uses the IMR 8208 XBR for his .223 and it also works fine for mid-weight 6.5CM (120-230gr). Nosler even lists XBR as their most-accurate load for 140gr bullets, among various powders they've tested. So, it can certainly work well. Assuming your own rifle "likes" the XBR and bullet selection.

Thanks BlueWater

IMR 8208 XBR is on my list of good possibilities.
Plus it covers the bullet calibers and weights I'm looking for.

Appreciate it

 

[mic2377]

The answer to this depends on what bullet weight you are planning to shoot in the 6.5.

Varget would work great with 75-80 grain bullets in 223, and 120-125 grain bullets in the 6.5. I have used Varget with great success in the 6.5 CM with 123 SMK's and Amaxes. In fact, the original Hornady factory 6.5 CM 123 Amax match ammo from back in the day (2007?) listed a powder charge of 39.0 gr of Varget as the factory load.

Just don't expect to be shooting 130-140 grain bullets at peak velocity - you will need 4350 for that.

 

[mausermanbob]

The answer to this depends on what bullet weight you are planning to shoot in the 6.5.

Varget would work great with 75-80 grain bullets in 223, and 120-125 grain bullets in the 6.5. I have used Varget with great success in the 6.5 CM with 123 SMK's and Amaxes. In fact, the original Hornady factory 6.5 CM 123 Amax match ammo from back in the day (2007?) listed a powder charge of 39.0 gr of Varget as the factory load.

Just don't expect to be shooting 130-140 grain bullets at peak velocity - you will need 4350 for that.

Thanks for the info mic2377

Varget is definitely on my "get list".
I'm also going to find some 4350, or something equivalent.
Thanks for your input

 

[Bill K]

I believe CFE223 would work in both also. Check a few reload manuals.

 

[Oso]

There are a number of great powders. We know what works well in .223 (too many great choices). Perhaps the next step is identifying which of these powder also works well in an intermediate cartridge, such as Grendel or Dasher. Hopefully, this translates over to good contenders for the next larger case, Creedmoor. Just spit-balling...

CFE 223 works well in .223 and also is a top performer in ARC/Grendel using heavier bullets (120gr-130gr) without a pressure spike. I know that in 6.5 Grendel that 8208 XBR begins having a pressure spike once it gets into +120gr bullets if loading toward higher-end. I don't know if this translates over to it being used in Creedmoor. Just something to watch for when loading with it.

Grendel / ARC: the top two powders are LeverEvolution and CFE223. Both of these produce the highest velocities while shooting the heaviest bullets, and they don't display a pressure spike while doing it. The next best for heavier bullets are ARComp and H4895, with slightly slower velocities but more temp stable. All other powder can work, but maybe at slower velocities or less accuracy.

.223: LeverEvolution is a preferred powder for long range (1000 yards) to get most out of the cartridge. It is not one of the "core" powders associated with .223, but it performs well pushing heavy bullets.

This is where my experience ends....
My 243 loves IMR 4350 so I have not bothered messing with perfection.

Good Luck - I'm interested in knowing what you determine works for your rifle.

 

[mausermanbob]

I believe CFE223 would work in both also. Check a few reload manuals.

Thanks Bill

I'm looking at CFE223 as well.

 

[AccelR8]

I use Staball 6.5 in 6.5 CM as well as 22-250. I noticed on the Hodgdon data web site they now have data for this powder and the 77 grain SMK in 223

 

[mausermanbob]

There are a number of great powders. We know what works well in .223 (too many great choices). Perhaps the next step is identifying which of these powder also works well in an intermediate cartridge, such as Grendel or Dasher. Hopefully, this translates over to good contenders for the next larger case, Creedmoor. Just spit-balling...

CFE 223 works well in .223 and also is a top performer in ARC/Grendel using heavier bullets (120gr-130gr) without a pressure spike. I know that in 6.5 Grendel that 8208 XBR begins having a pressure spike once it gets into +120gr bullets if loading toward higher-end. I don't know if this translates over to it being used in Creedmoor. Just something to watch for when loading with it.

Grendel / ARC: the top two powders are LeverEvolution and CFE223. Both of these produce the highest velocities while shooting the heaviest bullets, and they don't display a pressure spike while doing it. The next best for heavier bullets are ARComp and H4895, with slightly slower velocities but more temp stable. All other powder can work, but maybe at slower velocities or less accuracy.

.223: LeverEvolution is a preferred powder for long range (1000 yards) to get most out of the cartridge. It is not one of the "core" powders associated with .223, but it performs well pushing heavy bullets.

This is where my experience ends....
My 243 loves IMR 4350 so I have not bothered messing with perfection.

Good Luck - I'm interested in knowing what you determine works for your rifle.

Thanks for the info Oso

I've added the powders you suggested to my research list.
I'll let you know what I find l.

Bob