Possible new gunsmith?

[theduck]

Hi please take a look at these pictures of rifles i have built and let me know your opinion.
All the work is what i have completed and all the rifles shoot extremely well.
The red and black is a 6BR, i have shot 10 shot groups this weekend under 1" at 300 yards with a 5mph head wind.
The black and gray is a 6BR which i built for a friend and shoots the same as the above.
The forest camo rifle is my 6.5-284 which i have just built and im in the process of working up a load, the action on this rifle i made 100% myself on CNC machines.
I do all my work on CNC mills no lathes!! mills are so much more accurate with keeping things true a square.
Im thinking of starting to do a little gunsmithing but would like your input on the rifles i have built so far.
I have more pictures for anybody who would like to see them.
In case anybody is wondering the crown on all my rifles is my own design which is only possible on CNC mills.
P.S. the group in the picture is at 300 yards.

Many thanks

Mike

 

[Aussie_bob]

Mike,
Looks like I'm the first to reply all the rifles look very nice the only question i have at this time is why would you do a crown like that on the end of your barrel. It seems to be flush with the end of the barrel so gives no protection if bumped up against anything.
Does it do anything for accuracy or is it just a fashion statement i do it coz i can type of crown. The 11 degree crown works so why change it ifthere is no benefit.
Hope this is taken as constructive criticism the main people to talk to would be gunsmiths but if it works and is safe why not.

 

[theduck]

Bob,

I talked to a guy who builds and shoots 1000 yard f class, and he swears buy a straight crown.
So i decided to try it out with a very slight .010 x 45 deg bevel on the inside diameter.
This method i think lets the bullet exit very cleanly with no outside disturbance.
Plus the fact that if you bump a bench rifle you going to hurt something anyway .
Just my opinion though...

Mike

 

[Aussie_bob]

No worries Mike i don`t reckon there is any harm in trying most things it is the only way people will find out if it works or not. I spent many years at sea skippering boats then buying my own fishing boat and so on also involved in Radio and construction of antennas or should i say experimental.
A lot of what is written on things works in theory but put to the test sometimes can be vastly improved on. You just don`t know till you try and on occasions were told that no way could we be transmitting over those distances on the frequencies we used but we proved them wrong. Here in Australia we have problems getting good actions at a fair price an action that costs $1000 in the US to me here $2,200.
My nephew is an aeronautical engineer for a light aircraft mob who build all their own engines so have many CNC machines and do other work so if we can design an action and bolt draw it up in Auto cad they should be able to produce it once we have the design we will price machining they have all materials on hand.
The action you built is it a two lug action or three.
Bob

 

[Shelley]

Awesome project!!

How did you cut the lug races? Were they scraped, wired or cut with some kind of mill cutter?

Shelley

 

[tightneck]

Very nice looking work. I would love to see more pics of your action.

 

[NorCalMikie]

Mike: You wanted opinions. If they shoot as good as they look,:thumb::thumb:!

 

[USAPatriot]

The red and black looks tough. I like!
Are the rings on the crown concentric or a spiral? It's hard to tell but looks spiral. Your machinery or are you renting time in a shop? -Rod-

 

[bglenn]

Awesome - I would like to see more pictures of the action and bolt. Did you do the machining on a horizontal? Did you machine out the stock? More More
Glenn

 

[theduck]

Wow what a response!!
O.K a little history on me...
Im a mechanical engineer from England living in Texas, my current job is programmer/foreman at a very high precision machine shop and this allows me to have access to numerous resources.
The crown is spiral cut from the inside out with a small carbide end mill,1/8) this gives that spiral effect which i think looks great also giving a truly flat surface.
the bolt raceways were cut using wire EDM then lapped by hand to give a mirror like finish, the bolt is of an two lug design but vastly different from the standard Remington style, also the action itself has other mods to obtain rigidity and strength.
the bolt on all my actions are hard nickle plated and the tolerances i use from the bolt nose diameters/faces to barrel are within .002, this will not allow any movement during the firing sequence resulting in outstanding accuracy and high obtainable velocity.
All programs and drawings are done on MasterCam which is my preferred software to use.
I am thinking about buying machines to start producing actions and rifles at home, but this is a huge step which needs allot of thought.
Just to give you an idea of the cost involved:
Material for one action/bolt $30.00,stainless 17-4)
Nickle plate $35.00
Heat treatment free
EDM $150.00
Tooling $100.00 approx
also take into account overhead cost for running the machine.
Lets say $400.00 per action for total out of pocket for me, i would hope to sell actions for $700.00, if i can get enough real interest i will consider producing them after receiving a patent on the bolt design.
My bolt design has 40% more lug contact than the Remington style resulting in a very stable bolt to action fit.
Please feel free to ask as many questions as you would like.
Another pic of the action.

Mike

 

[theduck]

To answer your question Glenn.
I machined the bolt and action out of solid bar stock after i heat treat.
Some people heat treat after they finish machine the part because of ease of machining..but....this can result in material moving around as it stress relieves and hardens even though 17-4 is a very stable material.
The correct way is to cut the material after heat treat this keeps every true,square and concentric.

 

[tightneck]

Mike, I don't think you will have much trouble selling 17-4 BR actions for $700. What are the specs on the action? Whats the bolt to raceway fit? Would you be making different sizes and configurations? RB/LP/RE options and such. Would it be easy to set up for a 6.5", 7.5", 8.5" or whatever? Did you use a common footprint for bedding purposes, or is it different than anything else out there? Enquiring minds want to know.

 

[theduck]

Tightneck,

I used the panda footprint and bolt hole locations.
Every part of the bolt from the nose to the handle has .002" clearance.
The length of the action is 8.5", i could do any port and bolt configurations also the length could be changed without much problem.
Production of actions is a long way off, i would have to acquire the correct license and machines.
Its something im going to think about in the near future, i will carry on and make rifle's and have some fun doing it.
Next project: a friends 1000yard 6.5-284 is in the works and also a hunting rifle in 7mm wsm with a curly maple stock.

 

[ArtinNC]

Wow, you got my attention. Art

 

[butchlambert]

Sir,
I think that you need to rethink your pricing. You have expendables and a lot of other things that you haven't taken into account. To make it pay you need to be 3 times actual cost. You might not think so, but you will find out in short order that they're a lot of other costs that you haven't thought of yet.
Good luck with it, but don't put yourself out on a rotten limb.
Butch

 

[theduck]

Butch,

I totally agree with you, unforeseen costs will always bite you in the back.
On the other hand i have so much resources available at work with regarding tooling and material and outside services at low cost.
And favors that people owe
Anyway building actions is still way down on the drawing board.
Thank you very much for your advice most appreciated.

Mike

 

[paccini]

i have done my .50 bmg action by myself, but not using CNC machines. i would never more in my life do anything like this again. its a pain in the ass. with CNC its another history!

BTW, theres a method used to temper cro-moly steel, called austempering,you may know it). i just finished my bolt and austempered it. absolutely no warping at all and the bolt to action fit is .002".

action is 17-4 EDM'ed inside.

prices here in brazil,in US$):

steel,cromoly and stainless): almost free
edm: $75
CNC machining: $15/hr

want more?

my web site: www.geocities.com/riflesprecision/fotos.html

regards!

 

[paccini]

theduck,
just forgot to say. IN MY OPINION, if you want a bigger profit, go with cast actions.
another example here, a mold for a rem 700 copy would be US$ 6200. each cast rough action would be US$ 30-50.
regards