Poisoned Prairie Dogs

[necchi]

Actually there is a telling on the Environmental effects of secondary poisnings;

Secondary toxicity to mammalian predators from zinc phosphide is rather low primarily because the compound does not significantly accumulate in the muscles of target species. Some of the toxic effects to predators have been due to the ingestion of zinc phosphide that was in the digestive tract of the target organism (the prey). However, most predators will not eat the digestive tract. Studies on secondary organisms have focused on coyotes, fox, mink, weasels and birds of prey. Under field conditions most of the toxic effects to non-target wildlife are due to misuse or misapplication of this rodenticide.

http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/pyrethrins-ziram/zinc-phosphide-ext.html

 

[40X Guy]

How do they actually physically poison the dog towns? Is this something dropped from planes, or do they drive some kind of spray vehicle thru the towns? Just curious.

Frank

 

[CatShooter]

How do they actually physically poison the dog towns? Is this something dropped from planes, or do they drive some kind of spray vehicle thru the towns? Just curious.

Frank

When I was in the Canota Basin, the BLM guy had an ATV with a big hopper on the front of it. From the hopper, was a cable with a control handle - he drove up, and over the PD hole, and squeezed the handle, and the hopper dropped a hand full of oats that were soaked in poison (zinc phosphide) which will kill them, and anything that eats them.

Meow

 

[necchi]

which will kill them, and anything that eats them.

Not true.

 

[saunaking]

I have been in the pest control industry for over 30 years, so I will try and separate fact from fiction on the baits discussed here. I am also an avid p-dog shooter, so this matters to me as well.

Zinc phosphide in it's concentrated form is added to baits that are eaten by the target pest to kill them quickly. The zinc reacts with stomach acids which create phosphine gas. This is what kills the animal or bird. As far as secondary posioning, there is very little concern due to where the poisoning occurs (stomach/gut area), since this is not eaten by most animals and birds that feed on prairie dogs. There is a larger concern for game birds like pheasant and quail that may ingest the bait intended for the prairie dogs.

There are fumigant pellets that can be placed directly down a burrow to gas the p-dogs. This is usually pellets of phosphine gas that release the gas over a period of time depending on temperature and humidity levels. Care needs to be taken to ensure the pellets aren't covered by dirt when the burrow is covered after introducing the pellets. This is a much more expensive and time consuming method than using bait.

Strychnine baits do not have a label that will allow it's use anymore for control of p-dogs. This product was usually used early in the season before other vegetation developed for more effective kills. This product has an extreme secondary poisoning problem with animals/birds that would eat the poisoned p-dogs, which is the main reason why it is not labeled for p-dogs anymore.

The land owner has the right to poison on their property, and seeing the damage "skippy" can do to a good hayfield or pasture is tough for any owner to watch. Since most of us don't have the time or resources to spend every day in the field, some locations will have to be treated with poisons to reduce populations.

 

[CatShooter]

which will kill them, and anything that eats them.

Not true.

Is too true!

"Hazards to non-target animals from toxic baits are present in two ways: primary poisoning - direct consumption of the bait
material and secondary poisoning - consumption of poisoned prairie dog carcasses by predators or scavengers.
Non-target animals most at risk from primary poisoning are domestic livestock and poultry and certain seed-eating wildlife
species including waterfowl, grouse, pheasants, and some songbirds. Some grain baits are dyed or the shape may be
altered by steam rolling to make the bait less attractive to birds. However, these procedures do not eliminate the risk.
Alternate control methods may be necessary in areas where concentrations of non-target animals live and feed. There is
very little hazard to livestock if the applied bait is properly scattered in the recommended amounts. It is still advisable
to remove livestock from treatment areas when possible. In addition to reducing risk to livestock, prairie dog control will improve if livestock are not trampling on bait placements. Time bait application when precipitation is not forecast for several days. Bait loses its toxicity and attractiveness after rains or snow. Be sure to clean up and bury any bait spills.
Strychnine baits are no longer legal for use to control prairie dogs because of concerns about non-target poisoning.
Secondary hazard from strychnine is not caused by ingestion of carcass tissues but from residual bait kernels in the upper
digestive tract and mouth. Animals that consume the entire carcass such as dogs, coyotes, foxes, bald eagles, and badgers are most at risk. Animals that remove and discard the digestive tract such as most hawks, golden eagles, crows, and magpies are at considerably less risk.
Secondary hazard from zinc phosphide is considered to be low. Zinc phosphide in the presence of digestive acids within the gut converts to phosphine gas, the actual poison agent. The phosphine gas dissipates from the carcass quickly after
death leaving little residue to cause secondary poisoning. When practical, burial of prairie dog carcasses helps reduce
the hazards of secondary poisoning to nontarget animals."

From:

http://agr.mt.gov/weedpest/pdf/VertBulletins/PraireDog.PDF


Meow

 

[40X Guy]

Interesting, so this phosphine basically becomes somewhat inert after being ate by the PD's. I was wondering about this pretty heavy the last few weeks as my old stomping grounds and PD haunts have been poisoned in the Rosebud in SD. Or I can pay a 125 dollar a day per gun and pay an Indian guide also to hunt towns that have not been poisoned. It just doesn't get any better. :'(

Frank

 

[CatShooter]

Interesting, so this phosphine basically becomes somewhat inert after being ate by the PD's. I was wondering about this pretty heavy the last few weeks as my old stomping grounds and PD haunts have been poisoned in the Rosebud in SD. Or I can pay a 125 dollar a day per gun and pay an Indian guide also to hunt towns that have not been poisoned. It just doesn't get any better. :'(

Frank

The "Gas" doesn't get inert, it gets absorbed by the critter, but the undigested poison is still in the dead stomach.

As to the Rosebud, I "heard" (for what that's worth) that the tribal counsel has voted to make the Rosebud a "Lead free zone", and by now, you need to use the California approved bullets on the 'bud.

Don't take this as fact - but do call the counsel before you go out there - it's a bitch to drive eleventy million miles and be turned away at the gate.

Meow

 

[40X Guy]

Catshooter, thanks for that info. I have pretty much ruled out the Rosebud for any future hunts. Am looking at a possible hunt in Nebraska this August. Hope it pans out. I want to make sure I get my average 200-250 shots a day before traveling over a thousand miles.

Frank

 

[hogpatrol]

We've got the same issues here in southeastern PA with the groundhogs. They LOVE to set up shop in a soybean field and commence to eat a 30 ft. or larger radius circle. With the rimfire only regs and a few wildcards screwing it up for everyone else in the outlying centerfire areas, the farmers have resorted to gas bombs thrown down the holes. I don't blame them one bit but like the PD situation, it sucks.

 

[CatShooter]

We've got the same issues here in southeastern PA with the groundhogs. They LOVE to set up shop in a soybean field and commence to eat a 30 ft. or larger radius circle. With the rimfire only regs and a few wildcards screwing it up for everyone else in the outlying centerfire areas, the farmers have resorted to gas bombs thrown down the holes. I don't blame them one bit but like the PD situation, it sucks.

"With the rimfire only regs and a few wildcards screwing it up for everyone else in the outlying centerfire areas,"

Can you please tell me about these rimfire regs, wildcats and centerfire areas?

I lived in PA many years ago (the best shooting years of my life), and I was always welcome on farms with my big assed rifles, and I have never heard of rimfire only for ground hogs.

Thanks.

Meow

 

[hogpatrol]

Cat, Centerfires rifles are banned for ALL hunting in the southeastern special regulations area ( a half a dozen contiguous counties) and some western parts of the state so we are limited to rimfires, muzzleloaders, shotguns & bows. Too many homes and a few bullets going into the wrong places. Consolidation of farm ownerships & absentee owners hasn't helped either. Up until this year, groundhog hunting was banned during spring turkey season. Trying to stay off the soap box here but if you're a hunter in PA, it helps to have a law degree. ;D

 

[40X Guy]

Hogpatrol, anything goes in my part of NW Pa. as far as chuck hunting. I can imagine in the SE part of the state going into the toilet as it is a tad too close to Philly which has been taken over by libs. Farmers in these parts want them whacked and i am only too happy to comply. i have one landowner who goes with me on his property and loves it when I bring my Swift, a whole lot of high fiving going on. But it does not get any better in Pa. or elsewhere as the noose tightens ever so slightly.

Frank

 

[hogpatrol]

Frank, You are one lucky hog hunter. Unless I drive an hour or more to shoot my 6br, I'm limited to the rimfires (I have a few .17s ) and relatively calm days. After reading some of the posts, my dreamed of PD hunts ain't lookin' too promising either.

 

[woodbutcher]

We are getting ready to go to





We are getting ready to go to Sturgis,S.D. Does anyone know how the hunting is in this area?

 

[Hal]

Wood

There are some realy good gun Co's. in that area as I'm sure your aware.

Hal

 

[Rich Lee]

Oh my. Tell me I didn't read that.

Heading to Wyoming from here in Tampa mid-June. Hope what you reported is not widespread. Man it could be a long, expensive way from here to there alone for nothing.

I live in Fleming colo and I shoot prarie dogs every summer and they do posion some but Not to many and I shoot prarie dogs in towns that they have posioned because unless they have posioned every hole and covered the holes all up and hit the town with posion again it will not kill all of them and if the grass is green when they do it a lot of them will not eat that stuff. Prarie dogs are a lot smarter than a lot of folks think In colo anyway and I think anywhere you have to have a permit that you can get as a farmer, rancher or someone in charge of ag. land by going to a class and getting certified and still you cant buy it before march 15th or after sometime I think in oct. because of hawks and eagles maybe getting some. On Federal land you cant shoot p d till after june 15th on account of the black footed ferrat whitch lives in dog towns and they are an endangered species.

 

[XTR]

Zombie thread. You just resurrected a 10 yr old thread

 

[SmokinJoe]

Old thread but it might be interesting to know the current situation.

 

[STS]

How do they actually physically poison the dog towns? Is this something dropped from planes, or do they drive some kind of spray vehicle thru the towns? Just curious.

Frank

I was going to stay out of this discussion but I think it's appropriate to offer some facts for the sake of clarity. First off, there are poisons and then there are POISONS. By that I mean there are treated grains that are available to non licensed users like ranchers. Then there are extremely effective toxic substances that are only available to certified and licensed applicators. Those two substances are used in entirely different manors. The grains are scattered around the hole in the hope that the p-dogs will eat them. The controlled chemicals are put directly in the hole. I have a good friend who is approved to apply controlled chemicals by the state of South Dakota. The poison that he uses is called PhosToxin. It comes in pellet form in a sealed can and is introduced directly into the hole, injected with water and the hole is closed with dirt. This chemical reacts with water, including water vapor in the air, and IMMEDIATELY goes through a sublimation from solid to a gas. It's the gas that kills the vermin and it does it in a very short period of time. You can take one of the pellets and set it on top of a fence post and it will gasify from water vapor in the air in a couple of hours. Put water on the pellet and it's gone in a minute at most.
As you can see when the poison is applied underground (it goes down the hole in a piece of fiberoptic cable pipe and water follows) and the hole is closed the opportunity for other animals to be killed is virtually nonexistent. I have helped him poison several dog towns over the years and have never seen any evidence of collateral damage nor any dogs that survived the treatment. It is virtually 100% effective. Another bit of info from the landowners viewpoint is that it costs $2 per hole to poison a dog town. Next time you are in a big town look at the number of holes and do the math on what kind of expense the landowner incurs trying to control the population.
Poison grain is playing games with the dogs. Using the controlled chemicals is no game and will accomplish the end goal.