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Point of Impact DROPPING as Velocity Increases?

222Jim

Silver $$ Contributor
I'm a little stumped and hoping for some feedback.

I took my .308 out last week for the first time this year. I'm just starting load development and last fall zeroed the rifle at 100 meters at a charge that gave me a velocity of ~2,625 fps. Late last week I went out to do a powder charge ladder - I loaded and fired 10 shots at each step for a total of 100 shots. Each ladder rung was 0.50 gr apart. Mean radius for all 100 shots averaged 0.23 MOA, with promising 10 shot loads showing a mean radius of 0.13 MOA (and "less promising" 0.38 MOA).

But.............

There is an almost perfectly linear pattern between velocity (charge) and group center, with the group center very visibly getting lower and lower as velocity increases. Why?

I've done some online research and the most common explanations I find are (1) the muzzle has more time to jump up further at lower velocities before the bullets exits, and (2) barrel harmonics. I'm skeptical, in part because I'd expect muzzle jump to be somewhat erratic if caused by my poor form, hence leading to poor groups. But, the smaller/better groups are at lower velocities, with the best at ~2,325 fps (i.e., the slowest). And I can't imagine, given how small barrel harmonic movement is, that's the cause.

Any thoughts or opinions on what's going on?

FYI - Rifle a Bergara HMR Pro, and loads consist of Lapua brass, Varget, Sierra 168 MatchKing bullets, and Federal Gold Medal Large Rifle primers.

1741123615983.png
 
Just a couple of things for you to peruse. Also search tuners, positive compensation & negative compensation and read away.


 
Last edited:
I'm a little stumped and hoping for some feedback.

I took my .308 out last week for the first time this year. I'm just starting load development and last fall zeroed the rifle at 100 meters at a charge that gave me a velocity of ~2,625 fps. Late last week I went out to do a powder charge ladder - I loaded and fired 10 shots at each step for a total of 100 shots. Each ladder rung was 0.50 gr apart. Mean radius for all 100 shots averaged 0.23 MOA, with promising 10 shot loads showing a mean radius of 0.13 MOA (and "less promising" 0.38 MOA).

But.............

There is an almost perfectly linear pattern between velocity (charge) and group center, with the group center very visibly getting lower and lower as velocity increases. Why?

I've done some online research and the most common explanations I find are (1) the muzzle has more time to jump up further at lower velocities before the bullets exits, and (2) barrel harmonics. I'm skeptical, in part because I'd expect muzzle jump to be somewhat erratic if caused by my poor form, hence leading to poor groups. But, the smaller/better groups are at lower velocities, with the best at ~2,325 fps (i.e., the slowest). And I can't imagine, given how small barrel harmonic movement is, that's the cause.

Any thoughts or opinions on what's going on?

FYI - Rifle a Bergara HMR Pro, and loads consist of Lapua brass, Varget, Sierra 168 MatchKing bullets, and Federal Gold Medal Large Rifle primers.

View attachment 1639338
I believe you are seeing positive compensation with that load. According to several top shooters that is a good sign. I have seen this with my 30BR.
 
Just a couple of things for you to peruse. Also search tuners, positive compensation & negative compensation and read away.


Thanks............looks informative. I'll watch the full video this evening.
 
POI doesn't always rise with increased velocity. The muzzle is moving on its way to the 'dwell' period at the bottom of the movement. At some point with increasing charge weights, it will cross over and start to climb.

One of my 30BR's shows this effect pretty well....the lowest load has the highest POI on target. Subsequent increasing loads print each group about 1/2 a bullet lower than the previous load. It stabilizes at the cross over point, after which I run out of case to put more powder in. Going to faster and slower powders doesn't change the tendancy.

Just my 2 cents worth....
 
POI doesn't always rise with increased velocity. The muzzle is moving on its way to the 'dwell' period at the bottom of the movement. At some point with increasing charge weights, it will cross over and start to climb.

One of my 30BR's shows this effect pretty well....the lowest load has the highest POI on target. Subsequent increasing loads print each group about 1/2 a bullet lower than the previous load. It stabilizes at the cross over point, after which I run out of case to put more powder in. Going to faster and slower powders doesn't change the tendancy.

Just my 2 cents worth....
Agree Al. Seen it with my 30BR as well.
 
Are you using a suppresor?
No............being in Canada, our anti-gun anti-firearms Liberal Trudeau government has banned suppressors. And, if you haven't heard, recently made it illegal to buy or sell handguns, and prohibited thousands of rifles, almost arbitrarily, if they look scary, i.e. a WWII Lee Enfield rifle, because it's a "weapon of war". All to stop criminals from using mostly smuggled guns from the US. Can't make this up. But now I'm ranting :)
 

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