POI change off bags versus off elbows?

[Kevin_Duckworth]

Guys

I've been getting an ear bashing from hunters saying that the point of impact of a rifle sighted in using bags on a bench is different from a rifle sighted in prone off your elbows.

While on the one hand I'm sure they are right, on the other how much difference does it really make?

Has anyone out there got any concrete measured evidence,not just anecdotal-"yeah it's heaps different") because my thought would be that out to say 300 yds the difference for a rifle would be buried in the shooter and rifle error? I'm not a good enough prone shooter so any trials I did would certainly be "lost in the noise".

Thanks

Kevin

 

[Caduceus]

Kevin,

I can't give you a measured answer but will offer this thought up. If you are comparing a firm hold of the bench,i.e. not free recoil) vs prone/off elbows without a sling, I suggest the difference in zero will be slight but not certainly not enough to worry about. At least at sensible hunting ranges with Deer sized targets.

On the other hand, if you use a tight sling to shoot prone, you may see some significant differences, particularly if the tip of the forend contacts the barrel via a pressure point.

I shoot both Benchrest and High Power. I'd never try to get a prone zero on my HP rifle by shooting it off the bench. As a matter of fact, my offhand, sitting and prone windage settings are all different, irrespective of the different distances we shoot from for these positions.

What your hunter mates may be doing without realizing it is canting the rifle when they shoot "off elbows". This will most certainly give a different point of impact compared to if it was shot in perfect vertical alignment off the bench.

Something to think about - hope this helps.

 

[Asa_Yam]

Depends on how the rifle is set up, and the sighting system.

A rifle with a floated barrel may not show a change in POI due to the type of support used, but may do so due to the difference in head position on the stock.

 

[JER]

On the other hand, if you use a tight sling to shoot prone, you may see some significant differences, particularly if the tip of the forend contacts the barrel via a pressure point.

On the order of 3 MOA with my Mannlicher-stocked CZ 550.

 

[harvey13118]

I can not see a difference! I have a floated barrel. I zero on bags, then off bi-pod then it is anything that will work in the field to stay up outta the grass. Tonight it was a haywagon on a 320 yard shot. The tail never moved!

I can see it with the pressure point in the forestock as others have stated.

The cant comment really PQ'd my intrest. I will have to research that. I can see why it could affect but not certain in the field it would hinder unless it was exagerated.

 

[Rust]

Aside from the previously mentioned barrel pressure from stock contact the two methods of hold may show a perceived POI shift from variances in recoil management.

Now in my .223 there isn't much percieved difference because there really isn't a lot of recoil. My lightweight .3oo RUM field rifle is another story, if you don't hang on to that one there is no telling where the POI will be. Another example is my somewhat heavier .338 RUM,are you getting the drift that I like bigger cartridges) where recoil control management,meaning a consistant hold regardless of shooting style) also includes controlling the tendancy of the rifle to torque over which is particularily noticable when firing the 300 gr SMKs.

In my favorite rifle, the 6.5 X 284, recoil is negligible in comparison and the weight of the rifle reduces the effect further but a decent group or score is still completely dependant on consistant recoil control. it doesn't take much movement of the muzzle to shift the POI at 1,000 yards.

 

[JER]

Guys

I've been getting an ear bashing from hunters saying that the point of impact of a rifle sighted in using bags on a bench is different from a rifle sighted in prone off your elbows.

I would have to add that every single guy I know who is a "hunter" first and sees firearms as just something to kill game with is usually wrong about most of the basics of marksmanship and definitely ignorant about advanced concepts such as using a sling to steady the rifle, wind estimation, angle fire, and basic bullet trajectory.

 

[gdragon34]

Guys

I've been getting an ear bashing from hunters saying that the point of impact of a rifle sighted in using bags on a bench is different from a rifle sighted in prone off your elbows.

I would have to add that every single guy I know who is a "hunter" first and sees firearms as just something to kill game with is usually wrong about most of the basics of marksmanship and definitely ignorant about advanced concepts such as using a sling to steady the rifle, wind estimation, angle fire, and basic bullet trajectory.

Wait a second. My coworker told me a few times now about the boattails,not sure which) in his .243 that are dead on at 100, dead on at 200, and actually hits 6 inches high at 300. Are you trying to imply he doesn't know what he's talking about?

 

[harvey13118]

qdragon34

You may have to talk slowly to your friend. Explain to him that his target was probably set low and he will have to move it up 6" in order to be back on zero.