I am new to reloading. I live in a small town and now having a hard time getting primers and powders. Will large pistol primers work in rifle cases. I am loading for .308 in a Rem 700 and a DPMS LR .308. I have the same question about small pistol and small rifle primers. Can I use small pistol in a .223 case?
Pistol primers in rifle cases
- Thread starter madbomr
- Start date
This same question was asked here about a month ago, and a few individuals wrote in to say how they were using them without problems, but if you look at the pressures that .308's and .223's run, and look at pistol pressures, it is apparent that there is a good reason that they manufacture two different classification of primers,,rifle and pistol).
You are asking for real problems by using pistol primers, even magnum primers, in rifle loads.
You are asking for real problems by using pistol primers, even magnum primers, in rifle loads.
Specifically, what kind of "real problems" are you talking about? Who has done a test of a medium loads with medium bullets in an "expendable" rifle, "expendable" such as a pawn shop "special" in case "real problems" present themselves? fivering's advice lacks any supporting data.
Sierra bullets offers a good explanation of the differences on this link. I've used pistol primers in rifles for fireforming but not under full load.
www.sierrabullets.com
Primer Substitutions - Sierra Bullets
www.sierrabullets.com
jds holler
Gold $$ Contributor
I think we had a definitive statement from a CCI personnel that at least with CCI primers, the small pistol Mag primer is identical to CCI 400's (small rifle std) jd
jds holler
Gold $$ Contributor
A guy should always look first. jddivingin
Gold $$ Contributor
Okay; I didn't see this was 15 years old, but maybe this bears saying (for anyone else who considers swapping primer types):
Large rifle and Large pistol primers have different height dimensions. You *might* be able to ignite a small pistol primer in a rifle if you have enough firing pin protrusion, but large rifle primer in a pistol case will probably sit proud of the case base. Pressure issue is another thing to worry about - pistol primers are expected to see less pressure than a rifle primer. Cup hardness and thickness may make rifle primers harder to ignite in a pistol, and may see pistol primers more likely to pierce in a rifle.
Small rifle and pistol primers are the same size, and will interchange OK (with the same pressure and cup caveats.)
If you are swapping primers, stay away from max pressure loads until you verify that the different ignition characteristics aren't going to put you out of the safe range.
Large rifle and Large pistol primers have different height dimensions. You *might* be able to ignite a small pistol primer in a rifle if you have enough firing pin protrusion, but large rifle primer in a pistol case will probably sit proud of the case base. Pressure issue is another thing to worry about - pistol primers are expected to see less pressure than a rifle primer. Cup hardness and thickness may make rifle primers harder to ignite in a pistol, and may see pistol primers more likely to pierce in a rifle.
Small rifle and pistol primers are the same size, and will interchange OK (with the same pressure and cup caveats.)
If you are swapping primers, stay away from max pressure loads until you verify that the different ignition characteristics aren't going to put you out of the safe range.
An exception is using a small pistol primer in a .22 Hornet case, e.g., CCI #500. The Hornet has a very small case volume and thin neck walls. A 'powerful' [small rifle] primer will unseat the bullet by itself - before the powder can properly ignite. Therefore, it is preferable to use small pistol primers and possibly Lee Factory Crimp Die .001.”
Remington 6 ½ SRP has a thin .020" cup, intended for older, lower pressure rounds; good for .22 Hornet, .30 Carbine, etc. Remington says do not use for the .223 Rem or other similar pressure rounds.
Remington 6 ½ SRP has a thin .020" cup, intended for older, lower pressure rounds; good for .22 Hornet, .30 Carbine, etc. Remington says do not use for the .223 Rem or other similar pressure rounds.
RCE1
Gold $$ Contributor
I do use small pistol primers in Hornet class cartridges.
My understanding is that the REVERSE is true. Small rifle primers (in general) will withstand small pistol pressures but pistol primers can fail when used in higher intensity rifle cartridges.
dellet
Gold $$ Contributor
This all goes back 125 years to the introduction of smokeless powder’s. Up until that time there was basically little primer, big primer with no real method to the madness. Imagine a cartridge not much bigger than a 22 Hornet case using a large pistol/rifle primer.
Then there were large and small primers with the cups made of different materials, brass or copper the most prevalent choices. The start of tayloring to higher pressure loads.
With the advent of SAAMI, primer size became standardized. But there a few cartridges that were either never submitted, or fell off the list. A good example is the 32-40. Published data for the 32-40 still lists the primer as an 1 1/2, or large pistol.
It’s not uncommon to use pistol primers in reduced or subsonic loads in rifle cartridges because depending on the powder used, people have noted smaller ES/SD numbers.
Then there all sorts of handgun exceptions like the 357 Max. Which load data recommends small rifle primers. The 454 Casull and 500 S&W that use smal rifle, large rifle respectively.
Pressure certainly plays a huge role in primer choice, but not always.
But when you look at safety as the key factor, a higher pressure rated primer is most often the safest. The exception to that would be a primer too hard for the ignition system of the firearm that could lead to hang fires. Or too soft in an auto loader allowing slam fires.
Simply saying that pistol primers for pistols, rifle for rifle and/or stick to published data will often be contradictory.
Then there were large and small primers with the cups made of different materials, brass or copper the most prevalent choices. The start of tayloring to higher pressure loads.
With the advent of SAAMI, primer size became standardized. But there a few cartridges that were either never submitted, or fell off the list. A good example is the 32-40. Published data for the 32-40 still lists the primer as an 1 1/2, or large pistol.
It’s not uncommon to use pistol primers in reduced or subsonic loads in rifle cartridges because depending on the powder used, people have noted smaller ES/SD numbers.
Then there all sorts of handgun exceptions like the 357 Max. Which load data recommends small rifle primers. The 454 Casull and 500 S&W that use smal rifle, large rifle respectively.
Pressure certainly plays a huge role in primer choice, but not always.
But when you look at safety as the key factor, a higher pressure rated primer is most often the safest. The exception to that would be a primer too hard for the ignition system of the firearm that could lead to hang fires. Or too soft in an auto loader allowing slam fires.
Simply saying that pistol primers for pistols, rifle for rifle and/or stick to published data will often be contradictory.
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