pistol grouping low -new sights or me

[johnfkingmatrix]

I would like to steps back. Did you shoot this gun with the factory sights and it shot POA/POI using your customary stance and basic marksmanship fundamentals as you have in the past with your other guns? I think that is what you said previously, please correct me if I'm wrong.

this is correct.

in measuring, what am i looking for exactly? a deviation in trijicon front vs trijicon rear, compared to the deviation of factory front vs factory rear? or a deviation in factory front vs trijicon front /factory rear v trijicon rear

that is... what exactly am i trying to rule out in these measurements- since im not exactly sure what measurement results would be considered normal. arent all sights different heights inherently? or is there some standard expected relationship that im unaware of?

thanks

 

[Eagle Six]

In my previous post I recommended measuring the height and referenced from the "frame". That was my error, I should have said "top of the slide". My apology. Here is a photo to illustrate.

 

[johnfkingmatrix]

thanks for patience. that measurement wasnt the easiest to take since my caliper arms don't extend far, but they both appear to be equal at ~ 0.21"

 

[Shifty6br]

Sight Calculator

dawsonprecision.com

 

[Eagle Six]

John, just to confirm, that is the height of both front and rear sights of both sight sets?

 

[johnfkingmatrix]

John, just to confirm, that is the height of both front and rear sights of both sight sets?

negative..just the trijicon front and rear measurement that's currently on the gun.. do i need to push them out and insert factories to measure?

 

[johnfkingmatrix]

to be fair, measuring was a bit janky while on gun. would popping them off and measuring them more accurately and comparing to trijicon stated specs be ideal?

thanks for ongoing help

 

[Eagle Six]

to be fair, measuring was a bit janky while on gun. would popping them off and measuring them more accurately and comparing to trijicon stated specs be ideal?

thanks for ongoing help

Whether on the gun or off, you need to measure from a point that is common to both front sights and both rear sights. If they were easy to swap, I would again measure front and rear of the Trijicon as they are installed. Then I would take the Trijicon's off and measure both sets off the gun using a common point to measure bottom to top flats. Then I would put the factory on the gun and measure them as you did the Trijicon's when on the gun. From those measurements you should get some sense of a difference if there is any. I can see by photos that the rear sight sits in a dovetail slot which should be easy to swap. I am not familiar with the front sight and how it mounts.

Also, when you have the factory sights back on you could fire several magazines just to confirm that they are in fact dead on POI/POA, using the same ammo of course.

 

[johnfkingmatrix]

going to range tmw will bring sight pusher and confirm those things. the front sight pushes on and off as well, and had a small gap between top of slide. wonder if this is normal (gonna try to attach pic)

 

[johnfkingmatrix]

front sight view

 

[Eagle Six]

Not being familiar with your gun or the sights for it I would not say it is normal or not. I have seen other sights on other guns that had a gap such as that. I don't care for it myself. Looking forward to your results.

 

[johnfkingmatrix]

hate to admit it but i think to a large degree it was shooter error. i managed to clean it up considerably just hyper focusing on tight grip and smooth trigger pull.

the other shooter (small female) similar experience when hyper focusing on fundamentals, but definitely relapses some.

i think theres just something about the stiffer trigger pull /trigger profile of new hk vs broken in ppq that exacerbated some sloppyness.

there are a few variables that are unexplained such as
-initial group with factory sights being good,
-initial groups with new sights being good but low

but probably didn't test it enough to confirm. are there any tips youd throw out to prioritize on the grip to mitigate what seems to be a trigger pull issue , for her small hands?

and, is it weird for a trigger pull to cause low but still tight?

 

[rr2030]

 

[Eagle Six]

and, is it weird for a trigger pull to cause low but still tight?

I have seen students do a lot of bad things, but some were pretty descent because they did those bad thing consistently! So, it is possible.

but probably didn't test it enough to confirm. are there any tips youd throw out to prioritize on the grip to mitigate what seems to be a trigger pull issue , for her small hands?

This is where I will shy off. Although I have written a few specialized "How-To" type articles, I am (retired now) a teacher, instructor, and coach. There are so many different aspects of marksmanship fundamentals for so many different shooters, without seeing the shooter shoot, there is a good possibility I would be making things worse, rather than better. And, there are lots of manuals, books, videos and blogs on marksmanship accessible on the web, I would be mostly repeating what is already invented and available.

I would comment on the analysis chart posted by @rr2030. It's a poor aid to learning, but can be helpful in certain circumstances. Keep in mind the version he posted is for right hand primary hand shooting. If using the left hand as the primary, flip everything in the chart left to right.

 

[johnfkingmatrix]

thanks again, sorry it was such an anticlimactic conclusion. i was just so baffled by how *consistently* off it was

 

[Eagle Six]

I'm glad you got it sorted out, sometimes it takes a while, all is good at the end.

 

[snert]

Shoot a heavier bullet

 

[johnfkingmatrix]

Shoot a heavier bullet

whats that do? o_o curious now

 

[Bill K]

Worth trying, as you could be breaking your wrist down, which can cause you to hit low, if this is a pattern that has developed.

Get yourself some dummy rounds and mix them with live rounds in a magazine. When you pull the trigger on a dummy round and the gun doesn't fire, check to see where your sights are pointed the moment the firing pin falls. This will tell you if you have a flinch you're unaware of.

 

[SSL]

whats that do? o_o curious now

Heavier bullets tend to impact higher than lighter ones with the same sight setting.