Physics of muzzle brake recoil reduction

[savagedasher]

The biggest recoil reduction I have see is a break on a muzzled . The sabot gives a complete seal . A 300 gr bullet with 150 gr of powder has the kick of a 410 with 2/3 skeet load . Muzzle break design does effect accuracy . If you don't have it installed properly or design is correct . Larry

 

[Eddie Harren]

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...047A57BB53D9F738080D047A57BB53D9F&FORM=VRDGAR


Translator up!
Prof. Irwin Corey lives.

 

[VaRandy]

What Laws? This implication should always be qualified.
Your standard JP Enterprises brake, a standard used all the way up to tanks, produces no rearward thrust. It uses the momentum of gas hitting sideways diversions like a wall, to pull a gun forward.

The JP tank brake is magical. When you observe a shooter from the side the small backward push is followed by a pull back to (or very near) battery. Ugly as sin and louder than all others, it is the no one choice for a quick followup shot.

 

[carlsbad]

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...047A57BB53D9F738080D047A57BB53D9F&FORM=VRDGAR


Translator up!
Prof. Irwin Corey lives.

Thanks, but he's better looking than I am. --Jerry

 

[carlsbad]

The JP tank brake is magical. When you observe a shooter from the side the small backward push is followed by a pull back to (or very near) battery. Ugly as sin and louder than all others, it is the no one choice for a quick followup shot.

IdahoCTD has a test sled. Maybe we could get him to test one. --Jerry

 

[eric32]

I have experience with JP recoil eliminator is it is not as good for complete recoil reduction like the APA brakes. What is really shines is staying on-target ability. It doesnt move from target.

I am using a 16lb 308win with 175smk at 2680fps. At 200 yards i can follow thru without ever coming off the target. I am using 3 inch orange spotter pasties from Amazon.

 

[carlsbad]

I am using 3 inch orange spotter pasties from Amazon.

Thanks for your insight on muzzle brakes. But this is TMI. --Jerry

 

[eric32]

TMI?

 

[carlsbad]

I have experience with JP recoil eliminator is it is not as good for complete recoil reduction like the APA brakes. What is really shines is staying on-target ability. It doesnt move from target.

I am using a 16lb 308win with 175smk at 2680fps. At 200 yards i can follow thru without ever coming off the target. I am using 3 inch orange spotter pasties from Amazon.

I suck at staying on target, of course generally I'm shooting a BR or XC with no muzzle brake. I don't shoot a lot of prone. I've not a new Red Tac Pillow bag and put a nice muzzle brake on my new 6.5 SAUM so we'll see if I can't do better. My dad used to say that the shoemakers children go barefoot and I do a much better job of installing muzzle brakes for others than for myself.

--Jerry

 

[DRNewcomb]

TMI?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TMI
Probably the first listed meaning, "Too much information." (i.e. more than I wanted to know.)

 

[eric32]

"I see" said the blind man

 

[Nvreloader]

And to go along with all the above info,
this is very interesting to see the gas flow,
from muzzle brakes.

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/08/12/muzzle-brake-blast-ground-signature/

Tia,
Don

 

[dcali]

And to go along with all the above info,
this is very interesting to see the gas flow,
from muzzle brakes.

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/08/12/muzzle-brake-blast-ground-signature/

Tia,
Don

That makes for cool pictures (that help illustrate a point), but I wouldn't use it to evaluate brakes. It's not really representative of much other than what happens when you blast powder through a brake at low pressure.

 

[seymour fish]

If the holes on the side are pointed down, wouldn't that lift the muzzle? You'd be pushing the gas downward, in effect doing just the opposite of drilling holes on the top?

Agree. Expect that's what he meant to say

 

[carlsbad]

fixed. thanks guys. I was in the shop making prodigious amounts of chips yesterday and posting during breaks. Hope nobody took any of my comments as negative. I sometimes fall into the twitter trap of keeping sentences too short and being less polite that I should be. As Einstein said, everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.

--Jerry

 

[seymour fish]

Agree. Expect that's what he meant to say

Let's simplify: mass ejecta forward = most recoil, sideways = less recoil, straight back = much less recoil and a fried Toupee

 

[carlsbad]

Let's simplify: mass ejecta forward = most recoil, sideways = less recoil, straight back = much less recoil and a fried Toupee

You skipped 45 degrees backward which is what the most efficient brakes do. Your toupee is fine but the guy beside you hates you. --Jerry

 

[rbduffer]

Some more clarification / mud for the water. When Jerry said:

"Forces are easily resolved into independent vectors. Translation: all forces to the side can be ignored when looking at recoil reduction by a muzzle brake. So whatever goes sideways is irrelevant."

He is right, if we assume that he meant "whatever forces" when he said "whatever" goes sideways. But if we are talking about the gasses going sideways then they become relevant to the extent of what forces caused the redirection of the gasses.
Any change in direction is caused by force.
In this case if we can assume for argument that the blast is going straight out the barrel then a 90* turn of the gasses would require an force vector of 45*. Meaning that half the blast would push back to the center of the barrel and half would push forward on the brake. The closer this vector angle gets from 45* to 90* the larger the percentage of pressure on the brake (less recoil, more blow back) and the less toward the center.

 

[carlsbad]

See my post 19 above. --Jerry

 

[rbduffer]

"If you direct them (the gasses?) sideways, you'll create a sideways acceleration"

"Cos 90 = 0 so as the direction approaches sideways, (90 degrees) then the rearward component of the acceleration created by the gases is 0"

Are you saying that there is only sideways acceleration if the gasses come out at 90* and no forward acceleration?

I'm pretty sure that we agree, but I'm having a hard time understanding your explanation.