PLEASE READ PEOPLE WAKE UP -- Demand Custom Photos, Do VOICE Call, Never F&F -- Don't Get Burned!

[Forum Boss]

A Forum member just lost $850.

He did a deal with a previously legit forum account dickn52, who we now believe may have died this fall, or had his phone and/or computer taken.

The purchaser made three big mistakes:

1. Did NOT insist on VOICE Phone call. You should Always do a VOICE Call!
2. He paid using PayPal F&F. Friends & Family is NEVER to be used for ANY sale, and has no buyer protection at all!
3. He did NOT demand a custom photo.
-- The custom photo should have a large thing attached to the sale item and the sale item MUST be photographed in a different location. E.g. for a scope, demand that a sock be placed around the scope and that it be photographed on the dashboard of a vehicle.

Always Be Cautious
Remember, even a 100% legit account can be hacked in a matter of seconds. In this situation, the legit seller may have died and someone got his passwords (possibly even an evil family member).

WTB Posters be Very, Very Wary
Also, if you have a WTB advert, remember that MOST of the frauds are coming as responses to WTB ads.
If you are running a WTB advert, be doubly, doubly cautious. The scammers LOVE to nail WTB posters.

Scope Recommendation
We recommend you buy scopes NEW from a recognized retail vendor.
The $100-200 savings on a used optic may not justify the risk.

 

[Raydee]

Not to play devil's advocate but what is the difference between paying with a check, money order or F&F through Paypal? With the new IRS reporting and them sending 1099's I see more and more people asking for payment through Venmo or PP F&F.

 

[Forum Boss]

It is 100% against PayPal rules to use F&F for any sale transaction.

That's all you need to know. If it goes via PayPal Business (with FEES) you have protection as a buyer from fraud or non-delivery.

If a seller insists on F&F you should be highly suspicious and say "absolutely not".

Yes you can get ripped off with a check or money order too. But at least you have a name and physical address you can background check with a number of free or low-cost services such as Spokeo and True People Search.

The Voice Call is absolutely necessary. I do not know of one single forum member who lost money who actually voice-called the seller.

For gun sales you can also use an escrow service such as GunTab.com.

 

[Downeast]

I've had great success buying optics here. But I check buying/selling history, phone call, get a name and address, check the phone number, do street view when available, check tax records to see who owns the property, and whatever else I can dig up on the seller. I never bring it up but I know a lot about the seller (even spouse, kids) before any transaction is initiated.

 

[Forum Boss]

The individual who lost the money today told me he was reassured by the long history of legitimate posts by the original account holder. But there was a hiatus... which could be a red flag.

In this instance the original account holder's publicly listed phones have been disconnected, so we think there is a possibility he died, or is in some kind of elder care situation.

When making a voice call...

1. Listen for a foreign accent.
2. Check for a call forwarding (such as Google voice) -- that is a give-away.
3. Check the area code even before you call. If it's in New York City, and the seller claims to be in Texas, that's another red flag.
4. Start with a background search that could give you the guy's REAL area code and number.
5. Ask about the seller's shooting hobby, reloading, tools, targets -- a scammer won't know what to say.
6. Listen for background noises -- I did one test call before banning an account and I heard foreign language being spoken.
7. Ask what shooting club the guy belongs to.
8. If you are getting suspicious, you can ask a "loaded question", such as "What kind of. 22 rimfire shotgun do you prefer?"

Bottom line, do NOT buy anything EVER, without a VOICE phone call. And start with the presumption that the person on the other end is trying to rip you off.

 

[JSH]

I have to add to the voice call.
This is a fairly large forum yet the community of shooters is some what small.
The voice call can and does promote friendships and acquaintances. The typing and texting we do today has taken a large bite out of fellowship. Facial expression and tone of voice goes a long way.
What is typed in quick hasty way can be taken out of context fairly easy.
Take the time and call folks. Who knows you may make a new friend or have mutual acquaintances and didn’t know it.
I have a buddy that I consider a brother. We talked wheel guns one night on yahoo chat 20+ years ago, we talk at least once now. I have made a fair number of friends here and shook hands with several.

 

[ShtrRdy]

Well, dang, I've been going off of previous history and feedback of a seller and doing fine. Guess I'll have to crank up the BS Detector sensitivity for future purchases.

Forum Boss: You can have a great member with a decade of history, but he can leave his phone in his truck and a crooked son-in-law or parking operator can send out a half-dozen scam solicitation PMs in 20 minutes. You have to exercise self-protection ALL the time, with ALL transactions.

 

[LuvDog]

Voice calls and specific photos are a must.

 

[Cecil S.]

Yeah...nothing Paypal F&F and phone call with photos is the way to go. sorry for your loss.

 

[Rset]

I would suggest that as a seller, you also demand a phone conversation prior to a transaction.
If a buyer can't pick up a phone and make a new friend who enjoys the same things they do, I am not interested in making a sale. Period!.

 

[lancexxx]

They need to be caught, hung from a tree and their balls cut off.

 

[wedgy]

Forum Boss, can you elaborate on this ?

4. Start with a background search that could give you the guy's REAL area code and number.

 

[hogpatrol]

Call and ask if you can do face to face. I've done that with a few scammers and they always have some lame excuse as to why it's not possible.

 

[RabbitSlayer]

Thats a damn shame. I generally trust the folks in here if they have a good seller rating. I generally will sell online and not ship till the check clears. I think I have only been the buyer FTF.

 

[65swede]

Lots of good advice above. Voice call or face time is easy and not invasive to an honest person and its easy to see the human and the item at the same time.
But, criminals are liars and liars can be easy to catch. I have never had to use all of these at one time, but I have used some combination at one time or another.

Get the sellers address and look it up on Google maps, the vast majority of urban and suburban USA is covered by street view. If you can ask for custom photos of the item, ask for a photo of the front of the house after you get the address. Even if there is no street view you should be able to recognize the house in overhead imagery.

Once you have the address, go the the county assessors website. Lookup the address and confirm the ownership. They may be renters, but you can call and ask for the name of the landlord or name of the apartment complex.

Call the apartment complex and ask if so and so lives there, tell them you're doing a background check for employment.

None of this should be a big deal If the seller has nothing to hide. Walk away If anything seems suspicious. It might seem like a lot of effort, but you could do some or all of this in 30 minutes or less.

Back when I was a bartender and some kucklehead brought in a fake Id; I'd ask his buddy what name was on the ID. Think Sneaky.

 

[benschott]

View attachment 1497660

A Forum member just lost $850.

He did a deal with a previously legit forum account dickn52, who we now believe may have died this fall, or had his phone and/or computer taken.

The purchaser made three big mistakes:

1. Did NOT insist on VOICE Phone call. You should Always do a VOICE Call!
2. He paid using PayPal F&F. Friends & Family is NEVER to be used for ANY sale, and has no buyer protection at all!
3. He did NOT demand a custom photo.
-- The custom photo should have a large thing attached to the sale item and the sale item MUST be photographed in a different location. E.g. for a scope, demand that a sock be placed around the scope and that it be photographed on the dashboard of a vehicle.

Always Be Cautious
Remember, even a 100% legit account can be hacked in a matter of seconds. In this situation, the legit seller may have died and someone got his passwords (possibly even an evil family member).

WTB Posters be Very, Very Wary
Also, if you have a WTB advert, remember that MOST of the frauds are coming as responses to WTB ads.
If you are running a WTB advert, be doubly, doubly cautious. The scammers LOVE to nail WTB posters.

Scope Recommendation
We recommend you buy scopes NEW from a recognized retail vendor.
The $100-200 savings on a used optic may not justify the risk.

From one stupid enough to use pay pal friends and family once, NEVER do that yourself. Please listen to the honest advise given here.

 

[Cecil S.]

Photograph of item for sale with todays news paper is pretty solid as well.

Forum Boss: NO!!! People have been fooled by that. Photoshop can seem very real.

Make sure the item is photographed in a DIFFERENT Location, different setting, with a sock or other object wrapped around the item or the item placed inside a shoe etc.

We have seen guys fooled by the Newspaper thing.

Although I like a phone call it gives you a chance to sniff out a scumbag. Most items we purchase are expensive so I wish to have the warm fuzzy feeling about the deal. I have had great experiences with some great people on this site very few have caused me to walk away. Others have purchased more items then me.

 

[LoganDon]

The individual who lost the money today told me he was reassured by the long history of legitimate posts by the original account holder. But there was a hiatus... which could be a red flag.

In this instance the original account holder's publicly listed phones have been disconnected, so we think there is a possibility he died, or is in some kind of elder care situation.

When making a voice call...

1. Listen for a foreign accent.
2. Check for a call forwarding (such as Google voice) -- that is a give-away.
3. Check the area code even before you call. If it's in New York City, and the seller claims to be in Texas, that's another red flag.
4. Start with a background search that could give you the guy's REAL area code and number.
5. Ask about the seller's shooting hobby, reloading, tools, targets -- a scammer won't know what to say.
6. Listen for background noises -- I did one test call before banning an account and I heard foreign language being spoken.
7. Ask what shooting club the guy belongs to.
8. If you are getting suspicious, you can ask a "loaded question", such as "What kind of. 22 rimfire shotgun do you prefer?"

Bottom line, do NOT buy anything EVER, without a VOICE phone call. And start with the presumption that the person on the other end is trying to rip you off.

Great ideas. should save us a bunch of money.

 

[mauser284]

Great info! Learned a lot! I have to admit I have used F&F before on Paypal but not for gun stuff. I think it was electronic componets or a wood blank. I think I have done it 3 times in the last 10 years or so. I thought it was sketchy back then but all worked out.

I really liked the custom photo although I suspect AI programs could easily spoof that!