patching between cards

[houligan]

I notice that some folks say they patch the barrel between cards at a match. Hope this doesn't sound silly but, do most people just dry patch or do they wet patch and then dry. Don't mean to be too finite but since rifles and ammo have gotten so good, I think we're down to the little things that can make a difference. I would love to hear the opinions.

Jim

 

[dusterdave173]

I have been shooting ARA factory with a CZ for year and half. I have tried everything. I got thrown off the trail blaming results on the wrong things. Umm that is a biggie right there
Finally based on match results not practice I can say that total clean shoot ten fowlers or “seasoners” and go for score on 25 bull target. Hit the sighters as many times as it takes to gauge wind changes and so I wind up with 40-45 rounds on a 25 card. It can be drilling at end of card and I second guess should I or not? I went dry between cards all good. Started one damp followed by 6 dry and I started a winning streak. A good one.
I am sticking with it until I learn better I fully believe it would kill on two cards before falling off but do t want to risk a mid card drop off. I have experienced that enough to believe it
This is a factory barrel and has Nothing to do with other classes and finer barrels.
Living and learning but have been doing very respectable as far as match results
That is working for me. Ymmv
C4 , brush chamber clean, wet nylon brush about 20 strokes dry dry dry check stock screw TQ and drop her in the safe until next match
Drive t8-10 through it, hit the sighters until confidence is solid then whack 25 fast as I can when wind is right. When wind screws me on a bull I go to sighters until I get it then hammer fast until one lands weird back to sighters figure it out then keep hammering.

 

[TRSR8]

I notice that some folks say they patch the barrel between cards at a match. Hope this doesn't sound silly but, do most people just dry patch or do they wet patch and then dry. Don't mean to be too finite but since rifles and ammo have gotten so good, I think we're down to the little things that can make a difference. I would love to hear the opinions.

Jim

Jim,
This is one of those “depends” questions.
Mine are custom hand lapped barrels on BR rifles.
That said, myself, and many others, one lightly oiled patch followed by one dry between cards then solvent, brush, after match, usually including C4 in the throat.

 

[jpx2rk]

Jim,
This is one of those “depends” questions.
Mine are custom hand lapped barrels on BR rifles.
That said, myself, and many others, one lightly oiled patch followed by one dry between cards then solvent, brush, after match, usually including C4 in the throat.

Which oil do the "many" use ????

 

[gkgeiger]

One dry pellet for me.

 

[TRSR8]

Which oil do the "many" use ????

I guess there is no absolute consensus, several will work.
I still use PAL oil, long since discontinued.
Basic point is it makes fouling nice and easy to remove and a good barrel only needs 3-5 foulers and your good.

 

[houligan]

WOW! Many idea's and suggestions. Thank you, ALL! I guess there is no "cast in concrete" way but what works best with trial and error. Thanks everyone for following up on this.

Jim

 

[doclu60]

I notice that some folks say they patch the barrel between cards at a match. Hope this doesn't sound silly but, do most people just dry patch or do they wet patch and then dry. Don't mean to be too finite but since rifles and ammo have gotten so good, I think we're down to the little things that can make a difference. I would love to hear the opinions.

Jim

Breaking a promise to myself, 'don't do cleaning threads', but one comment I'll make is the wet or dry thing. Although some shooters run a dry patch first, I will never do that. You don't need a bore scope to see the sand like debris in the bottom of the bore of your .22lr rifle after it has been shot, especially after a full cards worth of shots. That stuff is highly abrasive and when you push your first patch dry just imagine pushing a small piece of sandpaper down your bore with no lubrication. One very well pedigreed shooter I know does push a dry patch first and when challenged about this he explained 'you don't shampoo your carpet before you vacuum it, do you?' Well, no........but a rifle bore is NOT a carpet. With the cost of barrel blanks these days and how difficult they are to obtain (along with smithing cost), why would someone push a dry patch first dragging all that abrasive material down your bore with no lubricate? My first patch is always wet.

Fouling (correct spelling, fowl are birds) the bore can/will be barrel and ammo brand specific, as well as how 'much' the barrel was cleaned before the next card. Eley fouls the bore faster because of its lube. When I shoot Lapua, it always takes more shots for the barrel to settle down. I also agree with post #3 as custom hand lapped barrels normally foul in much faster than factory barrels do. JME

Scott

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

It seems like majority would run something thru the bore between matches/card. So I just need to decide how far I take it, Going to try, FreeAll flush and chamber brush. Finish with dry patches. If my range would dry out.

 

[Mike_McAllister]

I am only on my fourth year of ARA Unlimited, so I am no expert. I have tried a few methods of cleaning/not cleaning between cards. For now, I have settled on cleaning between each card. I run two wet patches using a 50/50 mix of Shooters Choice and Kroil and then two dry patches. The first wet patch takes the majority of the fouling. The second wet patch usually comes out fairly clean. And then two dry patches. I shoot between 5 and 10 shots on the next card for fouling and sighters before shooting any record targets. My barrels are normally shooting to my expected POI after no more than three or four shots. My barrels are good custom barrels, Shilen, Muller and Benchmark.
After a match I use some C4 on a mop and let it sit in the chamber for 10 - 15 minutes. I then use a nylon brush and brush just the chamber/throat area. Then a wet patch or two using the Shooters Choice/Kroil and a couple dry patches.
For storage I use a trick taught to me by Larry Parsons the year he won the National A-Line (2022). I run a patch covered well with Thompson/Center Bore Butter. Bore Butter is a black powder product normally. Larry told me to use it and it would aid cleaning the next time and reduce the number of fouling shots required. I am not positive it does, but I do it anyway, just for the memory of being instructed to do it by Larry Parsons. I do not use the Bore Butter during a match; just for storage. The tube says it has rust preventing properties...
FYI, I got the 50/50 mix of Shooters Choice and Kroil from Gene Davis in Ohio. I bought my first good rifle, used, from him.

 

[doclu60]

It seems like majority would run something thru the bore between matches/card. So I just need to decide how far I take it, Going to try, FreeAll flush and chamber brush. Finish with dry patches. If my range would dry out.

Ah, you must be a centerfire guy to mention Free All. I do use Free All, but only in my CF's and my .17HMR. I use 2 products to clean my competition (.22lr) rifles. Straight Kroil and C4. My bore scope says I'm doing just fine on the custom barrels I shoot. As to how far to take it, listen to what your barrel is telling you and do that testing outside of shooting a match. My primary 10.5lb rifle can go 3 cards without needing any cleaning. I have never pushed it farther than that. A new barrel I am using on my backup rifle is a taper lapped Shilen Octagon and it demands to be cleaned by 100rds! Windy day, I'll easily shoot more than a box on one card. So, clean every card on that barrel. My primary Sporter rifle will go 2 cards with no cleaning, but I have never pushed it farther than that. In an IR 3-Gun double match, you only shoot the Sporter twice, so 2 cards.

I do the back-and-forth chamber/throat deal, but not with a brush. I just use a patch and C4, AFTER I have pushed one wet C4 patch first to do a lubricated debris removal, no back and forth on the first wet patch, just straight through. When the C4 patch doing the back and forth is showing no signs of carbon (light brown on the patch, usually 2-3 ) I go right to a bronze brush with Kroil for several straight through back-and-forth strokes, then finish with a Kroil patch and 2 dry patches. If storing the rifle for the next match, only one dry patch. So, nothing is written in stone. It takes testing (and a bore scope) to find out what each barrel wants and how well you are cleaning it. Save your costly Free All for other uses as I have found it not needed in rimfire. JME

Scott

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

I haven't had the rifle very long. Practiced with (100-150 rds) than shot a 100 yd score match(70-80 rds with sighters). Than shot same rifle 100 yards with irons, last few rds, bolt was harder to close. Want to avoid that as a couple shots on the last target opened up. But last target on the optic match, I dropped a couple points, so I think I should have cleaned either before the matches or between. If the range would dry up I could test some before next matches. Have some stock work to do, also.

 

[doclu60]

I am only on my fourth year of ARA Unlimited, so I am no expert. I have tried a few methods of cleaning/not cleaning between cards. For now, I have settled on cleaning between each card. I run two wet patches using a 50/50 mix of Shooters Choice and Kroil and then two dry patches. The first wet patch takes the majority of the fouling. The second wet patch usually comes out fairly clean. And then two dry patches. I shoot between 5 and 10 shots on the next card for fouling and sighters before shooting any record targets. My barrels are normally shooting to my expected POI after no more than three or four shots. My barrels are good custom barrels, Shilen, Muller and Benchmark.
After a match I use some C4 on a mop and let it sit in the chamber for 10 - 15 minutes. I then use a nylon brush and brush just the chamber/throat area. Then a wet patch or two using the Shooters Choice/Kroil and a couple dry patches.
For storage I use a trick taught to me by Larry Parsons the year he won the National A-Line (2022). I run a patch covered well with Thompson/Center Bore Butter. Bore Butter is a black powder product normally. Larry told me to use it and it would aid cleaning the next time and reduce the number of fouling shots required. I am not positive it does, but I do it anyway, just for the memory of being instructed to do it by Larry Parsons. I do not use the Bore Butter during a match; just for storage. The tube says it has rust preventing properties...
FYI, I got the 50/50 mix of Shooters Choice and Kroil from Gene Davis in Ohio. I bought my first good rifle, used, from him.

Mike, if you want to try it, forget about the Shooters Choice/Kroil mix. Try straight Kroil. A very accomplished Nebraska shooter (no longer competing) cleaned with nothing but Kroil. His buddy, Landy, scoped his rifles after cleaning and found nothing. I prefer to use C4 as well. As a retired field construction Boilermaker, I have seen the remarkable properties that Kroil brings to the table, in all sorts of applications. We didn't use it that much as Boilermakers, but the Millwrights doing steam turbine rebuilds during outages ordered the stuff by the gallons.

I shot with Larry a lot back when I was shooting more ARA and making a run on the A-Line. Larry took his first A-Line in 2021, although he also took the 2022 A-Line as well. I only beat Larry once for a match win, and that was in Lincoln in 2021. I shot my first and only outdoor 2,500 during that match (have shot another indoors since then). Larry, John Prince, and I shot the most ARA outdoor UL targets in the country that year. Me being 3rd most, John 2nd and Larry the most. We didn't finish in that order, me being only 12th, Larry and John in first and second respectively. Fun, arduous season, lots of road miles and lots of experience along the way. I shot with those two about 3-4 times each month, no matter where the matches were. Traveling for points, but Larry could out travel us all! Never heard Larry talk about the TC Butter Bore, but Larry had all kinds of little tricks up his sleeve. I miss shooting with him, but I was already progressing deeply to IR 3-Gun by 2022.

Just got off the phone with my cousin in Lincoln and I will be there in September to shoot Jan's last match then. If you're there, I'll give you the nylon brushes I have been carrying around for several years in my kit. I don't use them. Hope to see you there.

Scott

 

[Williwaw]

Breaking a promise to myself, 'don't do cleaning threads'

Glad you broke that promise, lots of good info and interesting history. Thanks

 

[NZ_Fclass]

I was concerned before my first 300m match that the 70+ shots, within an hour would cause problems, as there is no further opportunity to clean (15 minutes for sighters then 60 shots in 50 minutes - same as the ISSF match) It turned out not to be a problem and the rifle was grouping just fine - even when the barrel was too hot to touch. it's far from a new barrel, which may be a benefit (?). It's 223, by the way - we shoot an FTR class in 300m in NZ.

Cleaning after the first day, I was surprised on how little carbon or copper was in the barrel. It cleaned easily with Boretech Eliminator - my favorite copper solvent. I left the rifle for a few days after the second match and cleaned it at home with Iosso. Honestly, no dirtier than a day at the club. i'm building a new 223 during our winter - I will be putting a few rounds through before attempting another 300m shoot.

 

[TRSR8]

Breaking a promise to myself, 'don't do cleaning threads', but one comment I'll make is the wet or dry thing. Although some shooters run a dry patch first, I will never do that. You don't need a bore scope to see the sand like debris in the bottom of the bore of your .22lr rifle after it has been shot, especially after a full cards worth of shots. That stuff is highly abrasive and when you push your first patch dry just imagine pushing a small piece of sandpaper down your bore with no lubrication. One very well pedigreed shooter I know does push a dry patch first and when challenged about this he explained 'you don't shampoo your carpet before you vacuum it, do you?' Well, no........but a rifle bore is NOT a carpet. With the cost of barrel blanks these days and how difficult they are to obtain (along with smithing cost), why would someone push a dry patch first dragging all that abrasive material down your bore with no lubricate? My first patch is always wet.

Fouling (correct spelling, fowl are birds) the bore can/will be barrel and ammo brand specific, as well as how 'much' the barrel was cleaned before the next card. Eley fouls the bore faster because of its lube. When I shoot Lapua, it always takes more shots for the barrel to settle down. I also agree with post #3 as custom hand lapped barrels normally foul in much faster than factory barrels do. JME

Scott

Scott,
Not much to argue with here. I would throw out one minor caveat that the "dry patch" crew should consider that the recently departed WLM used to employ, especially shooting ELEY.
If you continue to dry patch.....make sure you do it within about 1 minute after your last shot, when the barrel has warm/soft lube. Greatly reduces the impact you cover.
That said, hard to beat 1st oiled, and again, sooner, better.

Tim

 

[Rockingham]

I guess there is no absolute consensus, several will work.
I still use PAL oil, long since discontinued.
Basic point is it makes fouling nice and easy to remove and a good barrel only needs 3-5 foulers and your good.

spooky what some people might have on a shelf in their garage.