Parent case 250 Savage?

[liltank]

What is the parent case for a 250 Savage? Can you use the 22-250 Lapua case as a parent case? I noticed that the taper is pretty heavy and the length is close to that of the 22-250. Any info on this caliber would be helpful. Thinking this would be a good starter caliber for my son. I'm also considering the 257 Roberts.

Tank

 

[fdshuster]

Winchester makes very high quality 250 Savage brass. Why try to form it from something else?

 

[liltank]

Winchester makes very high quality 250 Savage brass. Why try to form it from something else?

I've had issue's with Win. brass. Just like to use quality when I can.

 

[glo]

Don't know. Charles Newton developer the cartridge for Savage arms in 1915. I would guess he used a 7mm x 57 Mauser case.

Yes, you can neck up a 22-250 Lapua case. It's parent case is the 250 Savage (250-3000 Savage). Or you can resize (maybe have to first neck up) and trim any case within the .308 Winchester family. All the major manufactures have at least one premium grade case within the .308 Winchester family.

P.S. If you are concidering the .257 Roberts, skip it. Just go with the .243 Winchester. Less recoil and better exterior ballistics.

 

[liltank]

Don't know. Charles Newton developer the cartridge for Savage arms in 1915. I would guess he used a 7mm x 57 Mauser case.

Yes, you can neck up a 22-250 Lapua case. It's parent case is the 250 Savage (250-3000 Savage). Or you can resize (maybe have to first neck up) and trim any case within the .308 Winchester family. All the major manufactures have at least one premium grade case within the .308 Winchester family.

P.S. If you are concidering the .257 Roberts, skip it. Just go with the .243 Winchester. Less recoil and better exterior ballistics.

The 7x57 is the parent case for the Roberts. I forgot that the 22-250 was based off of the 250 Savage. Could have answered my own question. I know the 243 will out run it, but for short shots in the woods, it would be a fun round. Heck, my boy can handle the 308, but it would be different.

Tank

 

[fdshuster]

liltank: As mentioned above, yes you can make it from the ever excellent Lapua 22-250. I would have made mine from Lapua 22-250, but it was not available at the time: 10 years ago. At that time I found Winchester to be of very high quality.

 

[mikecockcroft]

I have two 250 savages and one 250AI, also one 257 Roberts. Both my kids were brought up hunting with them. Many a deer, hog, and coyotes have been taken with them. Don't believe you can go wrong with either one. I use R-P brass for mine, works fine, can't say we ever lost an animal due to brass.

 

[280shooter]

long live the 257 rob the deer dont like mine!! I like giving them a 100 grain sleeping pill.

 

[finnwerke757]

I would use the 22/250 Lapua brass and use the Cream of Wheat load to "fireform" the cases. That way you have awesome brass and no trimming.

 

[H2OBUG]

My first deer rifle (age 14) was a Remingtion Classic in 250 Savage I thought I could deer hunt and Varmit hunt with the same gun. I choose it after reading a 2 foot stack of 10 year old Guns and ammo type magizines ( this was around 1980) the magizines were from the 70's The gun shot pretty good with factory ammo -in that I had no idea how to reload at that time-- the factory ammo was slim pickins--looking back I think it was the right gun 87gr bullets @ critters and 117 or 100's for deer. I have had several .243's and a few 257 Bob's one an AI-- Out of all the 1/4" guns I like the standard 257 Roberts best. The AI version was great and would zip a 100gr NBT but I did not like all the fire forming on the brass. I think the 250 Savage gets over looked a lot in thet that are are just so many things you can do with the .243

In the end I had to choose for him I would go with the 257 Roberts-- Great classic gun with all the power you need for deer and you can load it with light bullets for critters. Gives you just a bit more than the 250 Savage (still a very cool round)-- If you are looking for a light recoil hot rod go with the 257 Roberts AI-- If you want to be just like masses get a .243 winchester

 

[liltank]

In the end I had to choose for him I would go with the 257 Roberts-- Great classic gun with all the power you need for deer and you can load it with light bullets for critters. Gives you just a bit more than the 250 Savage (still a very cool round)-- If you are looking for a light recoil hot rod go with the 257 Roberts AI-- If you want to be just like masses get a .243 winchester

Well that's the point. I don't want to be like the masses. That is why I am considering the 257 Roberts and the 250 Savage. I really like the ballistics of the 90 grain bullet. Hornady makes the GMX in 90grn. Thinking that would be a good combo. What is the best powders to use with the 90-115 grain bullets in the Roberts?

Tank

 

[H2OBUG]

I used Varget and H4895-- had good sucess with the Varget

 

[KMart]

I recently worked up a load for a friend of mine in his Ruger #1 250 Savage. He wanted to shoot a 100 gr bullet. I tried RE-17 with no luck. H 4895 did ok at about 2950 fps. Next I used RE-15 and a Nosler 100 gr BT and it all came together. The powder charge was less than 1 grain over the Hornady book ecommendation.
I used winchester brass and it was so undersized for the Ruger chamber that I got quite a few misfires until it was all fireformed.

 

[markr]

The 243 may "outrun" it with current factory loads.....doesn't mean it is really superior to the 250 Savage in ANY way, except for convenience. With that said go with what all the balistic engineers around here say is better.
Mark

 

[glo]

The parent case of the 250 Savage was the 30-06. If you neck 22-250 brass up to 250 the necks will be a little on the thin side, expecially for a factory chamber.

Not a thing in the world wrong with the 257 Roberts in my opinion. With Factory +P ammo or handloads it's tough to beat, especially with the 117-120 grain bullets.

Hi Dave, where did you get the information for the .30-'06 Springfield being the Parent case? If you got it from Wikipedia, I just removed that information. If not, could you post or PM me with your source and info. I'll update the Wiki article with that new info and reference.

C. Newton could have used the '06 case as the experimental case but he would have had to turn the necks heavily. Mathematically, from the sources I have, he would have had to turn them about .008”. .003” due to the thicker case wall down .436” from the '06 case shoulder to the prototype 250 case shoulder and .004” in thinner case neck wall from .290” to .286”. Thus the “06 could technically could not be the parent case as the 250 case brass would have had to be redrawn.

As not to get too deep in the weeds the 250 case thickness at basic is nominally .003” thinner as well. With the SAMMI pressures seeming to confirm this: 45,000cup for the 250 case and 50,000cup for the '06 case. My guess is that he used either the 7mm x 57 (1892) or the 8mm x 57 (1888). Neither case being related. The 7x57 was developed by P. Mauser and the 8x57 was developed by German Empire, Rifle Testing Commission. The 7x57 has a SAAMI of 46,000. The 8x57 is between 37000cup and 50,000cup. Both case show similar but not exact case thickness; .014” at the shoulder and .029” at basic. My source was Load from a Disk.

 

[dennisinaz]

All my kids killed their first few deer AND elk with a 250 Savage I built (commercial Mauser). It has a shortened stock and a short barrel. Excepting one javelina, they all used 100 grain Noslers. Never recovered a single partition- even from elk. The javelina was killed with an 87 grain Hornady.

The 25 cal bullets are better suited for elk than the 6mm bullets. There is also a little less muzzle blast. I have had a 257 AI and a regular 257 Roberts (new vintage Ruger). I didn't care for either of them. I preferred the little short 250 case. W-W brass is quite good in that caliber. Best powder I found was R15. I haven't loaded a 250 round in over 8 years so I have no idea if any of the newer powders would one-up the R15 loads I have.

 

[FryeGuy]

I vote for the 257 roberts. I have one and love it. nothing has lived I shot at it with. turkey, deer, elk. didn't matter, it was all bang and over with. I don't see how a .243 has any advantage over it other that very light bullets, and more match style bullets. I have a lighter load worked up for mine using 87spt sierras, and a a load for the heavier bullets (117 & 120) as well. it shoots them all equally as well. I get amazing accuracy out of mine. can't say enough good things about the great ole 257 rob. I do have to admit I also have always wanted to try a 250 savage, just haven't found one in a rifle to suit me yet.

 

[Eddie Harren]

Charles Newton developed the case in 1915. The 300 Savage didn't come along until 1920. I couldn't locate any info on the parent case. The 7x57 makes sense but I'm sure it had to be modified as to neck thickness.

 

[liltank]

As written verbatim from the Sierra Manual 3rd Edition 250/3000 Savage (250 Savage). Don't know why I didn't go here first. I forgot about this manual.

The extreme popularity this cartridge once enjoyed has prompted its inclusion here. it was introduced by Savage Arms in 1915 and there still exist many of the Model 99 Lever actions originally chambered for this cartridge. Later Savage built their Model 20 bolt action and Model 40 for the .250/3000. Winchester included this caliber for their Model 54 and Model 70. the "3000" tag on the name of this cartridge came about from the original factory load which produced 3000 feet per second muzzle velocity with an 87 gr. bullet.

The .257 Roberts and the new 6mm cases answered a greater number of demands than did the .250 Savage, but it is excellent on varmints and can handle deer also. Light recoil has helped the popularity of this one.

Tank

 

[glo]

I found the passage which cites the .30-'06 Springfield case. From Nosler reloading manual #2 page 110, “The .250 is based on a shortened , necked down .30-06 case.” So the prototype case was the 06 but there is no parent case. Thus .250-3000 Savage stands as its own original case.

Supposition: Since the 250 case was to be used in a model 99 lever-action rifle and not a bolt action rifle, my guess is that the case was drawn thinner than the 06 case for decreased chamber pressure with the secondary effect of having a slightly greater case capacity.

Good luck on your .257 Roberts build!